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Second Plane Suggestions.

Old 07-05-2013, 06:58 PM
  #1  
dereckbc
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Default Second Plane Suggestions.

OK guys looking for my second plane. Right now I have an Apprentice S a high wing trainer. Good plane but now looking for a Low Wind Plane.

I am in TX and 10 to 15 mph winds are the norm here and the Apprentice is not a great moderate wind airplane, and Aileron Rolls like a brick.

So what I am looking for is an Electric Low Wing, BNF, fairly easy to land/fly, tough, can fly in moderate winds, do basic beginner aerobatics like aileron rolls and loops, and not cost a fortune.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:11 PM
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Rockin Robbins
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Dereck, I know you're going to have a chorus saying this and probably see a blue million of them flying everywhere, but it's kind of hard to keep from recommending the Parkzone T-28, parkflier size. It is, hands down, the plane most cited as "most fun" by intermediate pilots and really has no bad habits. It's a guaranteed winnner.

Another Parkzone BNF warbird that is getting great reviews is the Corsair. Lots of people love them.

Both of these lack the nasty attitude of lots of WWII warbirds and qualify as great fun fliers.

Other ways to go are an EPP profile 3D plane, flat airfoil, these things fly fast, they fly slow, they respond crisply and you can control how sensitive they are through linkage and radio adjustments. Of course they don't HAVE to be flown 3D. They laugh at wind, mostly pretending it doesn't exist and are nearly indestructible.

Then there's the flying wing route. These guys also laugh at wind, are quite maneuverable and tuneable. And they're a bit durable. A Grim Reaper from crastesthobby.com looks like my next stop. Here's a video of their Assassin.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:37 PM
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dereckbc
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RR actually T-28 and Corsair are already on top of my list. I am a WWII history buff and really like WWII planes I think RC guys call Warbirds.

I know we got off on the wrong foot elsewhere, but you are not quite the Dipwad I thought you were at first.

Here is a Texan Joke you might like.

A rich Texan just gets married and taking Honeymoon in New York City. Walks into the Waldorf Astoria Hotel front desk.

TEXAN: I need the biggest room with the largest bed you have. Money is no object.

CLERK:. Are you a newly web?

TEXAN: Yes Sir and I am ready to saddle up.

CLERK: Would you like a Bridal Suite?

TEXAN: Pauses for a minute pondering the questions and says; No Sir I reckon I will just hang on to both ears until she gets use to it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:46 PM
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T-28 for sure.... NO question...
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:08 PM
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dereckbc
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
T-28 for sure.... NO question...
THX. There are a couple out there. Which manufacture and supplier?

Sorry if that is a Stupid questions, I am a newb.

Parkzone with available retract gear and flaps? That one is really catching my attention.... My TX is a DS7s!
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:19 PM
  #6  
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Parkzone. You don't want flaps or retracts while you are learning you want a lighter airplane without those features. You can get into that stuff later.

The DX7s is a great transmitter - excellent choice.

Mike
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:40 PM
  #7  
dereckbc
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Parkzone. You don't want flaps or retracts while you are learning you want a lighter airplane without those features. You can get into that stuff later.
I understand. Can it handle moderate wind of 10 to 15 mph for a Novice??

My Apprentice is too light weight. So far in TX all landings have been floaters, a couple even landing backwards. I only have about a dozen solos.
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:03 PM
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Airplanes don't know it is windy. That is all the pilot.

I get what you are saying but wind is something you need to manage and learn how to fly in.

The T-28 won't fly backwards in a 15mph wind it will penetrate wonderfully. I have flown mine in far greater than that, but I have very high rates on it and can react quickly.

As a novice I would recommend flying more in the early morning and late evening when the winds tend to die down a bit. Flying with less wind gets your confidence up. But you MUST transition to be able to fly in windy conditions. Way too many RC pilots don't do that - and they sit on their rear end - all while I fly.

I have flown in 40+ mph winds (where is can start to get hard to stand!) measured. That was with a slope glider powered by the wind however - so it is all what you make of it...

Mike
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:12 PM
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Dereck,
I was in a similar position to you.....

I had about 6 months exp on a wing dragon (4ch high wing trainer). This was my first plane and I got to grips with it pretty well doing Immelman turns, rolls and loops after a few flights. I then brought a Parkzone Corsair. What an amazing plane! BUT, I wonder how many people on the forums have actually flown one of these as a beginner/intermediate pilot. The corsair is a whole new world. You need to fly it pretty fast in order to stop it stalling, especially in the turns. I found it very twitchy and it took a bit of getting used to. This week, I have smashed it to millions of pieces on two occasions due to win tip stalls whilst coming into land. However, the hot glue gun works wonders. Take it from me, a beginner/intermediate will find it a crazy little bird, but I' really glad I brought it. I've read a few reviews that say that its suitable for training. Clearly, the people that write this stuff are not training. However, my crashes are my fault, maybe a T28 would of suited me better, but personally, I think they look pretty dorky! My view, no one elses! I hear that a Parkzone P47 is inbetween the T28 and Corsair?

This is me flying a Maxthrust Riot so you can see my ability.....
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9piqaBm5s&feature=c4-overview&list=UUjTWWQpTkMuNqUvJ9qlOSNw[/media]

And my Corsair maidens
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zN4ytceqig&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLEwuMPsDh9JU[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn6OMmd8RbM&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLqxVWDUDFReg[/media]
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:31 AM
  #10  
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Is that the V2 PZ Corsair? My V1 PZ Corsair was my 2nd plane, and I found it very easy to fly, and an extremely gentle stall. i have th CG a bit fwd, though. Is your CG aft of the recommended one?
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:48 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
I understand. Can it handle moderate wind of 10 to 15 mph for a Novice??

My Apprentice is too light weight. So far in TX all landings have been floaters, a couple even landing backwards. I only have about a dozen solos.
Moderate winds of 10-15 MPH pretty much call for a little bit more powerful model. I've had a few very light airplanes over the years. Taking off is not a problem. Landing can be a problem.

One big issue is if you have any trees around your flying site. When the wind blows over those trees, the wind does all sorts of swirling around, with both up and down wind currents. A very light model can get blown around in that stuff. I've actually had models come in for a perfect landing in windy conditions, only to have the wind pick up the model and cartwheel it around during the taxi back to the pit area.

Some of those high performance jet foamies handle the wind very well. And if you bang one up, 15 minutes later with some foam safe CA or epoxy, and its flying again. But those jet foamies are anything but a trainer! They can hit 100 MPH. We've had wind conditions so high that everything but those foamie jets were grounded. And that includes 40 pound 100 cc engine gasser models.
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:27 AM
  #12  
hayofstacks
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a lot of it is in the wing.

look at a symmetrical or semi symmetrical airfoil

high lift wings greatly increase the amount of effect the wind has. when I was flying my alpha 450 sport in 15-20mph.winds, it was all I could do to get it on the.ground. my dads much lighter mini pulse didn't even notice the wind. cross wind, down wind, nothing.really effected it.

same with his much heavier advanced. I attribute this to the airfoil.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:15 AM
  #13  
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I had the the PZ- T-28. Was my best friend for a couple of years. Hopped her up over time. Got her going on 4S with a emax 2820/07. Great plane no doubt. I actually lost her while testing a new iceman gyro. I was 100% myoptically focused on the gyro behavior and forgot where I was going. Big tree gets in the way and smack ! Goodbye Trojan ! I miss the ole gal. Learned alot with her. Great second plane as almost everyone confers.

I'll throw out an alternate that also flys great, and is relatively cheap. The Art-tech T-6 Texan. You're a fellow Texan , right? This one handes grass fields nicely and is very tame. I fly it in big air. Comes with retracts, diamond tires, split flaps( I don't use) and even a sound card. Got mine on sale from MotionRC for $135.00 shipped. Now I see HK is selling them. Very nice plane for the money.

What are your flying interests ? Speed, aerobatics? Scale? Warbird? 3D? What's your budget? Lots of choices out there depending on how much you want to spend. My 3rd to 5th planes were homemade $Tree foamie "Prop in the slot" Pusher parkjets. Loads of fun. Most cost me around $50-$60.00 to build with foam, esc, motor, prop, rods, etc.

Good luck !

-Hawk
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:35 PM
  #14  
dereckbc
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
I'll throw out an alternate that also flys great, and is relatively cheap. The Art-tech T-6 Texan. You're a fellow Texan , right? This one handes grass fields nicely and is very tame. I fly it in big air. Comes with retracts, diamond tires, split flaps( I don't use) and even a sound card. Got mine on sale from MotionRC for $135.00 shipped. Now I see HK is selling them. Very nice plane for the money.

What are your flying interests ? Speed, aerobatics? Scale? Warbird? 3D? What's your budget? Lots of choices out there depending on how much you want to spend. My 3rd to 5th planes were homemade $Tree foamie "Prop in the slot" Pusher parkjets. Loads of fun. Most cost me around $50-$60.00 to build with foam, esc, motor, prop, rods, etc.

Good luck !

-Hawk
Hawk thanks for the feedback.

My interest are still developing. Right now I have an Apprentice S, and it is a decent plane for what it is. I can fly it in wind, but landin gin 10 to 20 mph wind is a challenge. More like floating than landing. Right now I got basica flying down OK and trying beginning Acrobatics. About all the Apprentice can really do is Loops and Barrel Rolls. Aileron Rolls suk IMHO on the plane as it just rolls over and nose dives.

Right now my interest is leaning toward Warbirds doing Combat for excitement and possibly powered gliders for a laid back and enjoy the day sipping a cold one.

I do have Phoenix Simulator trying about everything it has which seems limited.

What is up with the Soiund Board on the Art-tech T-6 Texan?
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:08 PM
  #15  
rcers
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
I can fly it in wind, but landin gin 10 to 20 mph wind is a challenge. More like floating than landing.
20 MPH is TOO much for a rank beginner. You really should not be trying that. Airplanes slow and that is good when landing into the wind. That just takes practice and a bit more power. This is normal.

Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Right now I got basica flying down OK and trying beginning Acrobatics. About all the Apprentice can really do is Loops and Barrel Rolls. Aileron Rolls suk IMHO on the plane as it just rolls over and nose dives.
The Apprentice is not an acrobatic plane - but it will do nice loops and in fact rolls, stall turns and a few other maneuvers. It does aileron rolls just fine - you just have to learn about the elevator and rudder commands to use during rolls. When inverted you must also use "down" control and that will help keep the nose up.

TaDa!

Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Right now my interest is leaning toward Warbirds doing Combat for excitement and possibly powered gliders for a laid back.....
Try the T-28 first - warbirds can be a tad bit challenging so don't jump too quickly! Combat is fun - once you get some solid basic skills.

Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
...possibly powered gliders for a laid back and enjoy the day sipping a cold one.
Gliders rock, hate to sound like your mom here but drinking and flying just isn't smart. Most clubs are pretty strict about it too.

Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
I do have Phoenix Simulator trying about everything it has which seems limited.

What is up with the Soiund Board on the Art-tech T-6 Texan?
Sims are great - keep it up!

And Hawk and I must disagree. I think the T-6 Texan is one of the worst flying RC models I have ever flown - at least the ones I have had! I am sure that there are some good variants - but they have all left a bit of a bad taste for me.

Mike
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:20 PM
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And Hawk and I must disagree. I think the T-6 Texan is one of the worst flying RC models I have ever flown - at least the ones I have had! I am sure that there are some good variants - but they have all left a bit of a bad taste for me.

Mike, I would normally agree with you on this as all Texans , even the full scale version are renown tip stallers. But this Art-tech RC version is different as long as you fly it in big air. Try anything too tight and she doesn't like that. Will tip into a spiral. Need to have power through the turns. I find most warbirds fly like, well, warbirds. Marginal aerobatic capability. Nothing crazy. Slow rolls, stall turns, immellmans, cubans. I'm not that good of a pilot yet but I found it to be pretty tame and handles the grass field very well whereas I struggled on grass with the trike gear T-28. Just my opinion. For $135 shipped, it was about 1/2 the cost of the PZ-T-28. Just saying. Anyway, it's still intact. Whew !

T-28 is definately a great choice though. I would never trash talk that plane. Not sure what Parkzone brings that the other Mfg's don't except better local support (sometimes). A lot of versions of the T-28 out there that seem pretty good. They're all made in China, in the same city with the same type of injection mold machines.
-Hawk
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
Is that the V2 PZ Corsair? My V1 PZ Corsair was my 2nd plane, and I found it very easy to fly, and an extremely gentle stall. i have th CG a bit fwd, though. Is your CG aft of the recommended one?
Yep, its the new version. Cog is bang on what the manufacturer recommended.
.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:04 PM
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Rockin Robbins
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T-6 trainers train pilots in how to die, even experienced exhibition pilots with thousands of hours die in those things. The models are worse. Here's a great You Tube video on the nasty habits of the T-6. It's worthwhile to read the comments.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:44 AM
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Rockin,

LMAO ! I guess I'm the guy that takes up golf , doesn't know any better and birdies the first hole. My Texan hasn't bit me yet but I fly like grandma driving to church on Sunday.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:18 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
The Apprentice is not an acrobatic plane - but it will do nice loops and in fact rolls, stall turns and a few other maneuvers. It does aileron rolls just fine - you just have to learn about the elevator and rudder commands to use during rolls. When inverted you must also use "down" control and that will help keep the nose up.

TaDa!
Point taken I need some practice. What I have learned in the simulator seems fairly accurate with respect to the Apprentice, so I assume it is accurate the others models in the program are accurate as well. The T-28 in the simulator is really easy to do aileron rolls and fly inverted.

The Aprentice in real and on simulator when I try to fly inverted just wants to roll back up right while doing a nose dive in the process. Heck with th e3D model in the sim I can fly knife edges and hang on the prop no problem.

I guess if I could learn to do that with the Apprenitce the others are a piece of cake.



Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Try the T-28 first - warbirds can be a tad bit challenging so don't jump too quickly! Combat is fun - once you get some solid basic skills.
No worries, I am looking for Santa Clause time. My Daughter is now a doctor and payback time for Dad. .



Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Gliders rock, hate to sound like your mom here but drinking and flying just isn't smart. Most clubs are pretty strict about it too.
Afraid I gave you the wrong impression. For me a cold one is a drink like an Arnold Palmer (half ice tea and lemonade) or a Dr Pepper.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Rockin,

LMAO ! I guess I'm the guy that takes up golf , doesn't know any better and birdies the first hole. .
I can relate to that. Golf is my first hobby choice, gotta a 4 handicap.
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
The Aprentice in real and on simulator when I try to fly inverted just wants to roll back up right while doing a nose dive in the process.
That is exactly what you want a trainer to do! You are right if you can do good ones on that plane you will be amazed with the T-28.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:12 AM
  #23  
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IMO get a UMX with AS3X tech I got the Sbach last week and have been flying it in 20mph winds. That as3x tech is amazing. These little things fly better in the wind then all my big planes.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:59 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Rockin,

LMAO ! I guess I'm the guy that takes up golf , doesn't know any better and birdies the first hole. My Texan hasn't bit me yet but I fly like grandma driving to church on Sunday.
Oh, I'm not saying it's impossible to keep them in the air, just that the stuff we enjoy doing with planes is just what plants them in the ground.

The slightest bit of excess elevator at the wrong time in any attitude at any airspeed and the T-6 snap rolls. Even takeoffs are white knuckle affairs. Real pilots have instruments and flight parameters they can adhere to. We have seat of the pants impressions.

Keep elevator travel way less than you feel reasonable. Keep airspeed high, taking long shallow curves around the sky. You can survive in a T-6 but can't have the fun you can with other planes. With a T-6, "mere" survival is the best possible achievement and people will admire your plane while you sweat in terror! Lolol! Iron discipline is what this plane teaches!


Here's a commercial pilot with thousands of hours doing a routine delivery from one airfield to another.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
And Hawk and I must disagree. I think the T-6 Texan is one of the worst flying RC models I have ever flown - at least the ones I have had! I am sure that there are some good variants - but they have all left a bit of a bad taste for me.

Mike, I would normally agree with you on this as all Texans , even the full scale version are renown tip stallers. But this Art-tech RC version is different as long as you fly it in big air. Try anything too tight and she doesn't like that. Will tip into a spiral. Need to have power through the turns. I find most warbirds fly like, well, warbirds. Marginal aerobatic capability. Nothing crazy. Slow rolls, stall turns, immellmans, cubans. I'm not that good of a pilot yet but I found it to be pretty tame and handles the grass field very well whereas I struggled on grass with the trike gear T-28. Just my opinion. For $135 shipped, it was about 1/2 the cost of the PZ-T-28. Just saying. Anyway, it's still intact. Whew !

T-28 is definately a great choice though. I would never trash talk that plane. Not sure what Parkzone brings that the other Mfg's don't except better local support (sometimes). A lot of versions of the T-28 out there that seem pretty good. They're all made in China, in the same city with the same type of injection mold machines.
-Hawk
IMHO, any model that can suddenly snap roll just by hitting a little to much up elevator is not much fun to fly. I've had a few that did. And one snapped out after pulling out at the bottom of a simple loop with perhaps 10% up elevator. That bent up my nice new Hacker A40-10L motor. Found out later that that model was well known for unexpected snap rolls.

There are a number of very good, very stable models out there nowdays that fly very well, and are still capable of just about any acrobatic flight desired.

My latest model is the Hanger 9 Twist 40 with that same Hacker A40-10L up front. Nice model.
Hanger 9 Twist 40 Model
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70548

And the model getting the most airtime is this one:
Hangar 9 Kantana Model
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68844
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