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World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 inch Wing Span

Old 12-01-2009, 11:46 PM
  #151  
Larry G
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I too have 6100 RXs in 4 planes (foamies, under 48" wingspan) and have hundreds of flights and can't say for sure a crash was caused by a radio glitch. I have read the "Park Flyer" 6100s are short range, but I regularly fly darn near out of sight! All with Turnigy Plush ESCs, with the built in BEC. Just recently I started installing cheap ($8.00) Hextronic UBECs in my planes just because of all the bad things I heard about running 4 servos off of the built in BEC. So only time will tell I guess.

Now, I have also been watching people at my flying spot auger in, and always go out and help with the NTSB investigation. I have seen guys "lose contact" with Spektrum gear, including AR500. Most are using the
ESC's built in BEC, but often the RX light is not blinking and remains solid, indicating no brown out. Can you lose servo power without a brownout?
Not sure what is happening, maybe even with a good UBEC and full range Spektrum RX there can still be a rare radio glitch that causes a loss of control, but I guess it would take a scientific test and many hours to find out.

I have been to several flying sites where the people who fly there point out a "bad spot" where people get radio failure, even with Spektrum gear.
This is supposed to be impossible with 2.4 gear, right? Also it usually seems to be about the 10 o'clock position in the pattern. Just out of curiosity anyone else notice this?
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:30 AM
  #152  
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Turner,
Thanks for the advice.

Merry Christmas

RJ
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:43 AM
  #153  
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Larry G,
I haven't noticed any particular point in the pattern where folks experience "issues" with their 2.4 ghz electronics unless they are in close proximity to a cell tower or other strong RF source. We have a cell tower very near our club flying field and everyone, regardless of radio freq, avoids it like the plague.
Any receiver can be swamped with interfernce if the signal is strong enough and the receiver close enough to the source, regardless of frequency. Cell towers can cause interference under those circumstances but, it can be avoided if you stay far enough away. Now, the question is "how far is far enough?" and I don't have an answer for you. I'm licensed by the FCC as an Amateur Radio Operator but, that doesn't make me an expert. However, I have some experience with RF interference and it can be a strange and elusive critter.
Let me add that none of the crashes I've had have been at my home field so, I can't blame the cell tower. If/when I get the problem diagnosed, I'll post it here.

Merry Christmas

RJ
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Old 12-02-2009, 04:19 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by rowdyjoe View Post
Turner,
Thanks for the advice.

Merry Christmas

RJ
You're welcome RJ. I hope you get it sorted. I hate reading about crashes of these beautiful models. I have not yet built a model plane and am really impressed with the beautiful work you guy's and girls do. I'm looking for a small kit to put the guts from a PZ UM P-51 in as my first kit build.
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:51 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
You're welcome RJ. I hope you get it sorted. I hate reading about crashes of these beautiful models. I have not yet built a model plane and am really impressed with the beautiful work you guy's and girls do. I'm looking for a small kit to put the guts from a PZ UM P-51 in as my first kit build.

Stick with the ARFs. They are a lot quicker to get in the air. I like building but, would rather fly. The ARFs give me a chance to do a little bit of building and a whole lot of flying ...providing I can keep it in the air.
Even though I'm retired, I really don't have time to build a kit. Retirement is a tough job.

RJ
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:51 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
What kind of stand is that in the pictures in reply #16 of this thread? I am looking for a stand like that locally but no stores carry anything like that....
Sorry guys for my absence from this site!

The Foam stand is by Robart.
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:07 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
You're welcome RJ. I hope you get it sorted. I hate reading about crashes of these beautiful models. I have not yet built a model plane and am really impressed with the beautiful work you guy's and girls do. I'm looking for a small kit to put the guts from a PZ UM P-51 in as my first kit build.
how good of quality are the PZ servos in your p-51? i have a couple PZ servos from a AB3 and they seem to be very twitchy side by side compared to my hitek55 ones.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:36 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by guapoman2000 View Post
Sorry guys for my absence from this site!

The Foam stand is by Robart.

Welcome back Carlos.

Merry Christmas,
RJ
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Old 12-12-2009, 09:08 PM
  #159  
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Hi guys,

I've been lurking on site for awhile. I too have this airplane and decided to post my thoughts. Overall, it flies really well, and grooves like a Mustang should. I rarely fly at full throttle, as the airplane just does not need it. Performs really nice axial rolls and very large lazy loops.

I purchased mine at a hobby shop in Houston and it came with the power pack from Airborne Models (motor, prop, etc.) with the arf. I've been using an e-flight 45 esc driving five servos with no separate BEC, Airtronics 2.4 ghz with standard receiver, and a Turnigy 4 cell 3300 LiPo. The whole set-up has been rock solid electronically.

The two biggest problems I have are keeping the gear intact (now on my second set of gear) and keeping the airplane off of its nose on landing. I fly from a grass field and have gone to the biggest set of tires I can (with the gear still able to close) and have also bent the mains out as far as possible. I also agree that the covering is easily punctured.

Airbone Models service is pretty good in terms of stocking and servicing replacement parts.

I have about 25 flights on mine and it is usually the first one I think of to bring to the field with me.

Chris
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:00 PM
  #160  
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Chris,
Wish I could say the same about the number of flights on mine. It's still on the bench for repair but, the holidays have slowed progress to a crawl. I still don't know what caused the LOS that caused the crash so, I'll replace the receiver and ESC.
I've found the factory retracts to be brittle and easy to break on a hard landing. I plan to buy a set of Great Planes size 40 retracts from Tower Hobbies. They claim to be fiber reinforced which, if true, would add strength to the housing.
Glad you're having such good sucess with your bird. I hope to have mine in the air again by the end of Jan.

Merry Christmas,
RJ
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:00 PM
  #161  
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RJ,

Hope yours comes together after the holidays. I'd like to know how your retract upgrade works in terms of whether you need to modify the mounts or if they are a straight "drop-in."

I also forgot to mention that my experience was similar to the initiator of this thread in that the factory spinner was complete garbage.

This airplane is not without its challenges, but despite the few issues I have, it has been really enjoyable.

Chris
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Old 12-31-2009, 08:18 PM
  #162  
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Well folks, I chickened out on the rebuild and bought another airplane. This makes the 3rd one I'll have built. They say the 3rd time is the charm and I seriously hope that's true.

My New Year's eve will be spent assembling the new P-51. I'm determined to see this one stay in one piece for a while.
I plan to beef up the area around the gear to resist a break caused by side-loads. I think a side-load is what caused the last one to break. I'll probably order the LG set from Tower just to have them on-hand.

I think I've traced the cause of the latest crash to the ESC. It must have overheated and quit for a while which cut power to the receiver. It's the only thing that makes sense. I will replace it with a larger ESC but, keep the Castle BEC.
I have a watt meter now (a christmas present) and will be able to see what's actually going on with the system.

It's a great flying airplane and I love the retracts and the way she looks in the air and on the ground.

Off topic: I also got my first EDF jet for Christmas. It's an F-16 with fixed gear from Banana Hobby. I'm waiting for good weather to fly it.

RJ

Last edited by rowdyjoe; 01-01-2010 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 01-01-2010, 12:54 AM
  #163  
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More thoughts on the cause of my crash: A solution!

I went to the LHS for battery connectors this evening and happened to bump in to a buddy who used to work at that store. He's pretty sharp on the RC stuff ...cars and planes. So, we start catching up on personal news and the subject turns to my crash. He asks which receiver I was using and I tell him I'm using a 6100e. He then tells me that I most likely had a low voltage "zap" that caused the receiver to un-bind from the transmitter. WOW! brain flash ....that's the only thing that could have caused it. In the set-up I was using, the CC BEC is wired directly to the battery connector and is feeding the receiver with a constant 5amp (10amp surge) but, if the voltage drops below 5 volts, even for a split second, the receiver will un-bind and stop receiving commands from the transmitter.
So, the fix is an electrolitic capacitor designed to keep the voltage constant to the receiver. It's designed and made by Spektrum specifically for the 6100 series receivers. I paid full retail for one this evening ...$6. Very good and cheap insurance. It has a "servo" style connector that plugs into any open receiver connector.
I'm told that Spektrum has eliminated the problem with the 6110 series receivers and I have a brand new one it's going into my new EDF F-16.

Hope this has been helpful.

RJ
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:03 AM
  #164  
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RJ, Why do you want to use a receiver that Spectrum says is "designed for parkflyer use only" rather than choose one of their full range receivers like the AR6200 or AR7000? Surely a plane of that size deserves a full range receiver.
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Old 01-01-2010, 07:58 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
RJ, Why do you want to use a receiver that Spectrum says is "designed for parkflyer use only" rather than choose one of their full range receivers like the AR6200 or AR7000? Surely a plane of that size deserves a full range receiver.

1. It's relatively inexpensive and light weight.

2. If all 5 of the installed servos were to draw maximum current at the same time, the total current draw would not exceed 1/3 of the capacity of the system.

3. I never fly my airplanes at or near the maximum range of the receiver.

4. Please define "park flyer" in terms of range. I see no difference between a park and a club flying field or a cow pasture.

RJ
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Old 01-01-2010, 03:06 PM
  #166  
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I spoke to someone at Spektrum about receivers before choosing one for my Super Cub refit. The large number of troubling reports of glitches and unexplained crashes I have read about by people using the AR6000 and AR6100 prompted my call. He never actually said I should not use a 6100 in the SC but He did say that the purpose of the 6100 was for small craft where small size and weight were critical. Another thing he said was to look at the cost of the plane compared to the cost of the Rx. As the plane cost goes up it makes sense to put a little more into the Rx. I asked specifically what was meant by park flyer and he said something about the size of a small baseball field. I wish they would define park flier in more definite terms he explained it was not about range only but all about antenna diversity.

I put an AR500 in the SC and using it with a DX5e it has worked perfectly. I've even run to LVC and never lost control of the plane. If I needed a six channel Rx I would choose the AR6200 at the very least. I wouldn't use a 6100 or 6110 in anything that could carry any one of Spektrum's full range receivers.

I've only been involved with RC planes for a few short months and am certainly no expert but based on what I have learned so far I believe a plane that size needs a full range receiver and transmitter. I suspect your crashes might be due to the wrong choice of receiver. Go onto Spektrum's web site and read about what the AR6200 and especially the AR7000 offer and see if you think the 6100/6110 is still a good choice. I'd hate to see you lose another plane.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:29 PM
  #167  
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Turner,
I've heard those arguments before but, my personal experience shows otherwise. I'll be using a 6100 (not the same one) or 6110 in my new P-51 and I'll feel confident with it. However, after studying the AR500, I may put one of them in the airplane.
The cost of this airframe (ARF) is $140 MSRP (I've been getting them for less) ...relatively inexpensive. If I had $200 or more in the airframe I'd probably opt for a different receiver. The only thing that takes this plane out of the AMA defined category of "park flyer" is the all-up weight but, we've already discussed that issue.
I've yet to hear a convincing argument NOT to use the 6100 or 6110. As long as they are mounted in a position within the plane to prevent blocking of the signal, all is OK.

Happy New Year
RJ
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:46 PM
  #168  
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Isn't this your third. Looks like you're in it for a bit over three hundred at this point.
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:44 PM
  #169  
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Turner,
Thank you for your concern. Happy New Year.

RJ
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:04 AM
  #170  
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Happy NEW YEAR Rowdy.....

I haven't been on for a while. Sorry to hear about your glitches but keep trying..

Thanks for the pointers on beefing up the areas you mentioned. I will plan on doing the same to mine. And no I haven't even started it yet but hope to soon.

Tommy T.
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Old 01-02-2010, 07:25 AM
  #171  
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Have a good one RJ.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:43 PM
  #172  
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Odie,
Welcome back. It's good to hear from you. Been wondering where you've been.
I haven't been on much either due to the holidays and all the activities that go with them.
Hope you had a great Christmas and the New Year brings joy and peace to you and yours.

BTW ...get on with the assembly already.

RJ

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Old 01-04-2010, 08:17 AM
  #173  
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No. 3 is finished, except for the decals. All electrics check out OK but, I need a larger prop. The largest I had on hand was a 10X7E and it won't do the job with a 3S 20C LIPO. I flew no. 2 on an 11X8E and it performed quite well.
My brand new watt meter shows only 20 amps and 235 watts at full throttle. I'll pick-up an 11X7E, an 11X8E, and an 11X8.5E to test. I'd like to keep the amp draw around 35 to 40 amps and run two 3S 2200mah 20C batteries ....as before.
I also have a couple of 4S 3000mah batteries and I plan to see how one of those will perform in this plane. Looks like Tues. and Wed. will be my best bets to fly before the really cold weather its later in the week.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:15 PM
  #174  
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Hey Rowdy.

Good Luck on the Maiden. Did you make any other modifications from stock? Let me know what C/G works best....

I built Their electric corsair and it took three times to get a successful flight. Luckily I know how to recover balsa.


tommy t.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:54 PM
  #175  
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Tommy T.,
Thanks for the good wishes. I've got my fingers crossed and will say a prayer before launch that I have all of the bases covered and will have no failures this time. Every crash with this airplane has been caused by an electrical glitch of some sort and I believe I have done all I can to make it work this time. No mods but, I plan to add some glue around the retract housing to give it a bit more strength.

I put my watt meter on it today using an 11X8.5E prop and saw 29amps and 325 watts with two 3S 2200mah Zippy's in parallel. Airplane no. 2 was a bit nose heavy in that configuration and I had to add about 3/4oz of sticky weights near the tail. I still have to balance this one but, I expect it will be the same.

I also tried a 4S 3000mah battery using the same prop and WOW! ...what a difference. I saw 48amps on the meter and shut it down as the ESC is rated at 40 amps with a 10 sec. surge to 50 amps. So, I didn't have much chance to read the output wattage but, I believe it was in excess of 500 watts. If I decide to use the 4S battery, I'll have to find a smaller prop for it ....OR go to a bigger ESC.

The weather is supposed to be cold but, fairly calm tomorrow so it looks like a good day to fly. My P-51 should be ready to go.

RJ
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