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Flying the Super Cub

Old 08-18-2008, 10:36 AM
  #51  
jksecunda
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Originally Posted by dk_aero View Post
Great job! I've been lurking reading your threads since I joined... Thanks again Ed!

(we may need to chat about the throttle/elevator speed control thing someday tho'... )

BTW, has anyone here tried making their own anamometer?

http://www.instructables.com/id/Digi...er-wind-meter/
I just wet my finger and hold in in the air. Can't get wind speed, but if it gets cold, I know it's windy out.

Or you could throw leaves in the air. Another good one.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:37 AM
  #52  
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OK...ya got me convinced. $85 bucks is alot but so are my planes.....nice that it has the hole for the tripod....very cool feature.
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Originally Posted by Sabrehawk View Post
My gosh I go out flying all day and yu'ns posted up a storm dint'cha?

Hey Mike, on that windmeter I got well its not that inexpensive. I got it from Hobby Lobby, and uhhhh, well it's about 85 bucks.
These little devils are expensive, but I think I've seen a few at speedtech instruments that are reasonable. Hmmm lemmie see where that link is.

Uhhh well nevermind, heck speedtech's are just as expensive and they are starting out at 85 bucks. They are pricey little guys no doubt

Anyway, the one I have is at Hobby Lobby. Just look under "gadgets" and you'll see it, its the only one they have.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/gadgets.htm
But you could look at Speedtech's stuff too.
http://www.speedtech.com/prodtype.as...cordPosition=1

Pricey as they are they do provide good acurate info. The one HL sells though is the only one I've seen that makes accurate measurements no matter what direction the wind is coming from, where the Speedtech ones have to be held and faced directly into the wind to get accurate measurements.
Mine I have it on a mini-tripod and it just sets there and measures from any direction, no need to aim it just set it up and leave it. It can read in mph, kph, knts, m/s, and even has a beufort scale. Reads present speed, max speed, and average speed.

Hehe, heres mine as I am sitting in my Jeep watching it........ and waiting.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:03 PM
  #53  
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You don't need a wind meter, though they are nice gadgets to have if you have the money.

Put that light weight ribbon on your antenna. Hold the radio out flat so the ribbon hangs. If the wind can lift it to 45 degrees, it is too windy for a new flyer.

Me, I fly even when the ribbon goes straight out. But I have thousands of flights and more than a few crashes completed.

You don't need to know the difference between 3 and 4 mph or 6 and 7.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:03 PM
  #54  
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If you can still stand when the wind is blowing you can fly. Might not want to fly if you are a beginner but if you don't learn to fly in the wind you won't be flying much. I have my students fly in all kinds of wind. The more wind the better.
I had a student call me from the field and tell me to stay home because all the "pilots" at the field said it was to windy to fly and they were all standing around. I asked him if he was still standing and he said yes. We flew all day. After the other pilots saw my student fly over and over again some of them started to fly. You are creating a lot more wind with your prop then what is blowing around the plane from mother nature. You just have to be able to tell what you are making the plane do or what the wind is making the plane do. The sooner you can tell the difference the better. Now repeat after me.......Wind is my friend.....wind is my friend......Get the idea? Now go fly!!!!!!! Still a good idea to get an instructor. Preferably one that can fly in the wind.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:58 PM
  #55  
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Default Thanks guys.

Thanks Sabrehawk. I think that one from HL will be about the cheapest one I can find, which is ironic because HL prices have jumped a bit.

thanks for the link Humboldt, but I don't think I want to spend almost $200.00 for a wind meter. I really appreciate the response though friend. Thanks.

Mike
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:30 PM
  #56  
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Default inexpensive wind meter

Here's one I found for only: $21.50
http://www.gemplers.com/product/R150...ble-Wind-Meter
It compares itself with WAY higher priced models,(they have a chart), and it looks good to me. I'd be interested in what one of your more experienced guys think about it....yeah you Aejer,<sp>...Dusty...oh heck...I have NO MEMORY so I can't recall ALL of the excellent posts...oh! Angler-Hi is in there. See? It comes back now & again.....
So let's here it fellas!
Zoo ~~~^..^~~~
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:33 PM
  #57  
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Found another that I like. It's $50 but a nice digital.....
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BNNLD4?...0&linkCode=asn
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:44 PM
  #58  
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Once I was well beyond beginner, I used to say that if the wind blew my hat off, it was too windy.

Then I got better, so I would turn the hat around so the brim was in the back. If it could knock it off, THEN it was too windy.

Now that I have actively integrated ballasting into my flying, I can probably go beyond that.

I have been slope soaring at the beach where I had to wear goggles to protect my eyes from blowing sand. I think we were in the 30 mph range.


Beginners who are learning on your own, PLEASE look for days under 5 mph. Once you are comfortable with that, work your way up to 10 mph. After that, it is whatever you feel you can handle.

Remember it is the pilot that handles the wind, not the plane. However some planes are more wind worthy than others, making it easier for the pilot to handle the wind.

But that all comes later.
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:53 PM
  #59  
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BUT...do ya think any of those wind meters are any good?
Zoo ~~~^..^~~~
Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Once I was well beyond beginner, I used to say that if the wind blew my hat off, it was too windy.

Then I got better, so I would turn the hat around so the brim was in the back. If it could knock it off, THEN it was too windy.

Now that I have actively integrated ballasting into my flying, I can probably go beyond that.

I have been slope soaring at the beach where I had to wear goggles to protect my eyes from blowing sand. I think we were in the 30 mph range.


Beginners who are learning on your own, PLEASE look for days under 5 mph. Once you are comfortable with that, work your way up to 10 mph. After that, it is whatever you feel you can handle.

Remember it is the pilot that handles the wind, not the plane. However some planes are more wind worthy than others, making it easier for the pilot to handle the wind.

But that all comes later.
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:59 PM
  #60  
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Yeah, it is more in the hands of the pilot to handle the windy stuff, and yes some planes do better than others. Seems to me a 4 ch plane does so much better cause you have the ailerons to quickly counteract those sideways gusts. Where a plane with only the rudder has a much harder time.
My E-flight Jenny being so light, can really get unruly and take full rudder sometimes to get back level when a gust sends it into a hard bank suddenly.
However my Christen Eagle with four ailerons hasnt any trouble at all with the same situation.
But still I'd prefer to fly in winds 8 mph or less, its just more enjoyable.

Hehe, and as much as some fellas I know may think its a bit of a not so nessicary device, they still come over to see what it's reading often.
The club I was flying at this weekend, I had it set up and several fellas were over there checking it out and found it quite cool, and wanted to know how much and where to get it.

I gotta get in this club, was sweet having such a nice RWY, and all the space you could want.
It certainly beat dodging light poles, trees, park goers, and soccer balls, dogs and you name it.
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:35 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Zoo View Post
BUT...do ya think any of those wind meters are any good?
Zoo ~~~^..^~~~
I am sure they all work and are all more accurate than needed for our purposes. So go for the cheapest that will meet your personal cool criteria. Basically that is what they are, cool!
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:53 PM
  #62  
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Thanks AEAJR...I even spelled it right for once!!
Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
I am sure they all work and are all more accurate than needed for our purposes. So go for the cheapest that will meet your personal cool criteria. Basically that is what they are, cool!
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Old 08-18-2008, 05:10 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Beginners who are learning on your own, PLEASE look for days under 5 mph. Once you are comfortable with that, work your way up to 10 mph. After that, it is whatever you feel you can handle.

Remember it is the pilot that handles the wind, not the plane. However some planes are more wind worthy than others, making it easier for the pilot to handle the wind.

But that all comes later.
This is the info I have been looking for. Ed, I appreciate you telling it like it is. You also had some very good advice on flying, taking off and landing and such. I think I've gotten alot of free advice here in the last two days and hope at some point I can pass this along to other begnners.

I will update you guys as to how things are going. I realize its a slow process as I am trying to move things along to quickly.
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:25 PM
  #64  
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Hi all,

I thought that this was going to be another boring Supercub thread so I almost skipped it. Would have missed out on a lot of interesting discussion.

I won't re-open the whole throttle and elevator discussion, but I would love to have a seperate thread on it. I hate to admit it but once again Ed (AEAJR) hit the nail on the head (well, almost). Ed was about 90% correct and the others were about 90% incorrect.

Ed, if we could only find a way to make it mandatory for beginners to read your posts and stickies, there would be far less threads from beginners trying to get help and far more satisfied flyers, enjoying their new found hobby.

As far as wind meters, particularly for beginners, nothing beats having a wind sock (i.e. ribbon) on the tip of your antenna. The price is terrific and the information is being broadcast right from the flying field, not from a parking lot or other remote location. At the field where I fly, there is a flag pole with several flags, located at the parking lot which is about 300ft. from the field, and another one about 1/4 mile away. Most of the time the direction and speed of the wind that is displayed by the flags is DIFFERENT between the two poles. Many times the wind direction and speed differs at the field from the two poles. The only way to know exactly what is going on at the field is to have a meter that displays both wind direction and wind speed right at the flying location. The ribbon serves both functions perfectly well. There were times that I flew my plane when the wind direction changed drastically every minute. I could not plan my landing until I saw the direction of the ribbon just at the moment of preparing for the final approach.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:36 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by airmail wf View Post
If you can still stand when the wind is blowing you can fly. Might not want to fly if you are a beginner but if you don't learn to fly in the wind you won't be flying much. I have my students fly in all kinds of wind. The more wind the better.
I had a student call me from the field and tell me to stay home because all the "pilots" at the field said it was to windy to fly and they were all standing around. I asked him if he was still standing and he said yes. We flew all day. After the other pilots saw my student fly over and over again some of them started to fly. You are creating a lot more wind with your prop then what is blowing around the plane from mother nature. You just have to be able to tell what you are making the plane do or what the wind is making the plane do. The sooner you can tell the difference the better. Now repeat after me.......Wind is my friend.....wind is my friend......Get the idea? Now go fly!!!!!!! Still a good idea to get an instructor. Preferably one that can fly in the wind.
Not sure that wind bravado is what we need to be passing along to a beginner pilot especially when he is flying an underpowered plane with a lot of drag. Big difference between flying a high performance plane and a trainer on a windy day. Risk of crashing or lsoing an airplane increases at least 10% for every MPH over 5 for a beginner. (At 15 MPH of wind I am 100% confident a new pilot is going to crash - likely on the very first turn away from the wind.)



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Old 08-19-2008, 12:13 AM
  #66  
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Yeah Leo, I'd love to do a thread on the throttle/elevator relationship and all the other aspects of "The Art of Flying" and have thought of starting one but havent for fear it would attract a lot of naysayers and the like and might turn into a furrball. For this is one subject for which there is a lot of misunderstanding.

But since ya mentioned it, I found a good article so I dont have to type my fingers off.
And I think I just may start a thread on the subject cause it really does deserve one.

http://www.digital-flight.com/basic_...and_back_3.htm
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:26 AM
  #67  
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I agree that trying to convince a beginner to go fly in the wind is not really a good thing, especially when he's still learning. At the same time, where exactly do you get your statistics from friend? I wouldn't say that a beginner should believe "100%" that they're gonna crash in 15mph winds. I only say that, because that was about all there was when I was learning, and I learned quick how to handle my plane. Yes, I crashed a few times during the learning curve, but nothing is impossible.

Also, I happen to think that the Super Cub is a pretty decent plane in calm winds, and once mastered can be a hoot to fly in stronger winds. Don't get me wrong, a good crosswind could make it difficult sometimes, but I wouldn't necessarily say the SC is underpowered...especially not for it's intended purpose.

I do agree with most of what you're saying about the whole wind thing Clint, but I wouldn't try to convince a beginner that the SC is underpowered and can only handle 0-5mph winds. Please don't take offense friend, I think experienced pilots will always have their own ways of doing things and that's what makes this forum great. There can be 100 different opinions on the best way to handle a situation, and not one of them will be exactly the same. Good winds Clint.

Mike
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:49 AM
  #68  
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Yeah good on ya Mike, I agree. Never encourage anyone to fly in conditions he's not comfortable with, beginner or not.
Nor make him feel any less a pilot for not doing so, he's actually a smarter pilot for it, and will likely be taking all his planes home in one piece and feel better about his flying in the end that he successfully did what he knew was right.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sabrehawk View Post
Yeah good on ya Mike, I agree. Never encourage anyone to fly in conditions he's not comfortable with, beginner or not.
Nor make him feel any less a pilot for not doing so, he's actually a smarter pilot for it, and will likely be taking all his planes home in one piece and feel better about his flying in the end that he successfully did what he knew was right.
Well I just think that if you're still learning the basics, best to fly in very little wind. However, there won't always be 0mph winds, so don't feel like you're wrong to try and fly in 5+ mph winds. Once you have the basics down (orientation, taking off and landing), then by all means explore your plane's potential. In my opinion, a plane's true potential is about 90% pilot skill and 10%plane itself....I have no statistics to back that, I'm just saying that to let people know how I see it.

If it feels wrong it probably is. If there's the slightest doubt, pack up and go home. One day our new friend Jeff, will be able to go to the field, already knowing his plane, be able to see the conditions and decide if it's smart to put her up. I guess what I'm saying is, "there's nothing wrong with playing it safe, and there's nothing wrong with exploring potential and new skills".
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:30 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Angler-Hi View Post
One day our new friend Jeff, will be able to go to the field, already knowing his plane, be able to see the conditions and decide if it's smart to put her up. I guess what I'm saying is, "there's nothing wrong with playing it safe, and there's nothing wrong with exploring potential and new skills".
Well I cant deny I'm a little confused as to whether to fly in wind or not, but I think common sense wil tell me that flying in light wind for training is a better way to go. As experience comes, I will try more windy days.

Thanks for all your posting in this area. I need to go back and read everyone's input in this area. I am taking it all in and making decisions based on my experience...like not flying tonite with 12 mph winds...
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:33 AM
  #71  
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Yeppers, rodger that Mike...........

Ok, found another site with some really good publications and these are specificly aimed at R/C pilots, check out the one titled "Proficient flying"
The entire thing isnt there of course, you'd need to purchase it to read all of it, there's just a few exerpt's mentioned, but well you'll see.
Looks like some good reading, and I notice it's refered to as the "Stick and Rudder" of R/C flying. Stick and Rudder is a book written in 1944 for full scale pilots and students and IMO is the best book on flying I've ever read, and it too would be good reading.
http://www.donshobbyshop.com/gemstone.htm

The book "Stick and Rudder" is also availible at most bookstores, and I bought my copy at Amazon.

And yet another interesting and informative article at AOPA, which refers to Langwiesh's "Stick and Rudder"
http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfarticles/sp9408.html

Last edited by Sabrehawk; 08-19-2008 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:52 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Angler-Hi View Post
Well I just think that if you're still learning the basics, best to fly in very little wind. However, there won't always be 0mph winds, so don't feel like you're wrong to try and fly in 5+ mph winds. Once you have the basics down (orientation, taking off and landing), then by all means explore your plane's potential. In my opinion, a plane's true potential is about 90% pilot skill and 10%plane itself....I have no statistics to back that, I'm just saying that to let people know how I see it.

If it feels wrong it probably is. If there's the slightest doubt, pack up and go home. One day our new friend Jeff, will be able to go to the field, already knowing his plane, be able to see the conditions and decide if it's smart to put her up. I guess what I'm saying is, "there's nothing wrong with playing it safe, and there's nothing wrong with exploring potential and new skills".
I agree. If it feels wrong it probably is.

I regret that my first flights some 15 years ago were in 15 MPH+ wind with a 2M electric glider. Had I flown the same plane on a calm day I would have had a much better chance of success instead of getting discouraged and abondoning the hobby for many years.
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Old 08-19-2008, 03:15 AM
  #73  
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I know exactly how you feel Clint. I crashed my first plane so many times in those kind of winds, it was really discouraging. I felt that as cool as this hobby seemed, that I just didn't have what it took to be a part of it. Then I found Wattflyer. It was people like you Clint, those with years of experience, who helped me regain my confidence and always willing to help the new guy. It feels really good to be able to take what I've learned and give back to our new members and pilots.

Jksecunda, there will more than likely either be some kind of wind or it will kick up while your flying. A little wind can be good, especially when landing. I would say in a good 5-7mph wind, it can really help slow your plane down a bit on final approach. I think the most difficult part for me when I was learning, was flying in a crosswind. I hated that! I would try to fly my plane straight and the wind would carry her sideways. The SC is a great beginner plane. She will let you make a few mistakes and still fly for you. She also has great gliding capabilities, which helps alot when landing or even those emergency landings. Don't stress too much on trying to figure out whether or not to fly in a little bit of wind. Just concentrate on what feels comfortable to YOU!! As your comfort zone increases, so will your skills...that's the fun part of R/C flight!! Good luck Jeff.

Mike
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Old 08-19-2008, 03:47 AM
  #74  
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Went out this weekend to maiden my DMZ Decathlon (Wing Span: 35", Wing Area: 224 sq in, Weight: 13 oz.) with BoysToys (a fellow Watthead) and winds were gusting 10 - 20 mph.

Too windy (for my taste) for a maiden and also too windy (for my taste) for the Skyartech Cessna. Soo.... out comes the SC. I flew one flight and put it away. I've flown it in higher winds, and no doubt I could have flown more, but for me it seemed more like "work" and I'm out there to relax and have fun.

Don't ever feel pressured to fly in conditions where you don't feel comfortable, aren't enjoyable or where it's no longer fun. Better to pack it up and try again another day...
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:31 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by cbatters View Post
Not sure that wind bravado is what we need to be passing along to a beginner pilot especially when he is flying an underpowered plane with a lot of drag. Big difference between flying a high performance plane and a trainer on a windy day. Risk of crashing or lsoing an airplane increases at least 10% for every MPH over 5 for a beginner. (At 15 MPH of wind I am 100% confident a new pilot is going to crash - likely on the very first turn away from the wind.)



Clint
Well lets see I'm trying to get the new flyer to not be afraid of the wind you on the other hand are telling him he is going to crash if he flys in the wind. I didn't know there was a thing such as "Wind Bravado" Learn something new everyday. I didn't tell anybody to go out and fly by them selfs in strong wind. I said my students (that means students on trainer cords) fly in the wind and sometimes strong wind. I also said if you are a beginner you might not want to fly in strong wind. I also encouraged the young man to get a instructor. The SC is very capable to fly in wind. It is not underpowered plus the wind if it 's coming down the runway can really help with landings. So many RC pilots are afraid to fly with any wind they are missing alot of fun. I think this comes from learning from the start to only fly in calm conditions.

Let me make myself perfectly clear. If you are determined to teach yourself to fly without an instructor your best chance is in low wind conditions but as soon as you can keep the plane up in the air and land don't be afraid to fly in some wind. If you can find a instructor go with that and ask the instructor if he is willing to teach you if there are windy conditions. If he says no then find one who says sure he can teach you how to fly in wind. You will be flying more and looking at the wind meter less.

By the way I taught myself how to fly many years ago. Being a dumpa$$ I flew in some really strong wind and yes I did crash a couple of planes but you know what I learned to fly in the wind and I'm not afraid to fly in wind to this day. I still can remember the time I hand launched a 1/2A foam Cub into the wind. It went about two feet in front me and just stayed there (little windy) I turned downwind and the cub went like it had jets on it. Turned upwind and worked it back to me it ran out of fuel right in front of me and sat on the ground. That was the plane I learned on. I had been flying about a month. You never know what you can do till you try. After that wind never bothered me again. OH oh there goes that "Wind Bravado" again.
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