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E-flite P-38 combo

Old 03-29-2008, 04:25 PM
  #26  
tommytorino
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FWIW I had the EMI/Phase III P-38. It was a SWEET flyer on two little Esskay HL motors. DO the rudder mod and be amazed at how well it turns on rudder alone. Thats 1 rudder BTW!!

Oh, if the provided spinners are the same as in the EMI kit you might want to pick up a pair of CHEAP E-Flite ones.

Tommy D
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:10 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
I was under the impression that if you had one ESC plugged into one channel, and another ESC plugged into another channel, then both provided their BEC functionality (1A from the first, and 1A from the second). I just picked that up in reading about a couple of multi-engine planes, though, and I didn't pursue the source of the info much because I was using an external BEC at the time anyway. The person who had stated that was using a nondescript brand of ESC.

I'd be curious what works and what doesn't, and in what setup (eg, wiring the ESC's together and running a single wire back to the throttle, and running them off two separate channels and mixing them [what I'm currently doing on my P-38]).
MANY esc's CAN NOT be joined together as the one ESC will try to power the other ESC and they fight against each other. Even with the Phoenix controllers you must set them properly. Even the ThunderBird Series are not recommended to gang the ESC's together. I watched a guy loose a twin model - same issue the BEC's quit.

You must check with the manufacturer - but even then I have watch issues arise (eFlite ESC's). So it is not worth the risk to me.

Even those brands of ESC's that can work together will not "double" the BEC ability to handle the load - Castle is very clear on this...

So on all my twins - they get either Castle Phoenix controllers or BEC's. Most get BECs.

My Twins:
eFlite p-38
Alfa Bristol Beaufighter
OV-10 Bronco
OV-1 Mohawk
O-2
GWS 262
e-flite Airliner
and soon to be Mossie!

Mike
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:25 PM
  #28  
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Interesting. The Phase3 P-38 instructions specifically call for you to plug them both into a harness, which is included, and doesn't call for you to remove any wires so only one BEC is operational. I recall Don saying he was using two Pentium (same as TP/Turnigy) ESC's on his Executive Jet, and mentioned that they'd provide a total of 6A from their linear BEC's, as well: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8890073

Why would one ESC try to power the other? Servos draw their power from the Rx, but ESC's are plugged directly into the battery ... wouldn't think they'd be made to accept a current IN from their 3-pin connector. Only out. Not saying that don't try to pull power in - just saying that's always been what I thought was a logical assumption.
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Old 04-01-2008, 02:29 AM
  #29  
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My E-flite P-38 combo shipment from Horizon Hobby was literally sitting on my doorstep when I arrived home from work today. What a thrill!

It shipped from Horizon the same day I ordered it, traveled via UPS ground in exactly 7 days (to the outer reaches of Atlantic Canada I might add) and breezed through Canadian customs due to the very detailed paperwork (of importance for those of us in the great white north). It was nicely double boxed and undamaged.

Here’s pictures of the packaging:

http://picasaweb.google.com/RocketMa...ey=5Yn42dBjHo8

Cheers,

Rick
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:12 AM
  #30  
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Rocketman,
I too live in Canada and am interested in this Aircraft. How much total did it cost at your doorstep??
I live in Vancouver and wonder if there would be any problems getting it here.
Thank you for any info you may have.
Robert.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:46 AM
  #31  
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Hi Robert,

I didn't pay any duty or GST I think because of the very good paperwork provided by Horizon.

There are issues with this model so I have been reading a lot and not put mine together yet.

The best source of information is in this thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=691256

From what I understand there are a few critical things you have to change to get this model to be reliable. I can send you a summary if you want. After those changes are made everyone seems to rave about it...

Rick
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:46 PM
  #32  
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Hi Rick,
Thanks for the link, good reading. I would be glad of any info you have to improve the Aircraft. Perhaps you could PM me the info. The debate about counter rotating props and the reasons for and against will go on indeffinately. In the meantime aircraft such as the DC3 had both props turning the same direction and many others had counter rotating props, all flew as they should. If you look at the size and wieght compared to the prop and engine of a DC3, the P-Factor or gyroscopic effect of the engine and prop on take off would effect the DC3 far less than it does with our model airplanes. In effect, we are trying to tilt a very large gyroscope, compared to the size of the aircraft, when we are trying to point the nose at the sky. M2CW.
Robert.

Last edited by RMFISH; 07-08-2008 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:11 PM
  #33  
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Robert, I will send you by PM this evening the summary that I received from MERLIN in the RCG thread. He is definitely the expert on this airplane!

I recently had the opportunity to acquire a slightly used E-flite P-47 and what I thrill it is to fly a scale model warbird! It looks so realistic in the air. The P-38 will be even better I think.

About the counter rotating props, I plan to try it with props rotating both ways to see for myself. Once I get it dialed in and used to it of course :-)

Rick
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:34 PM
  #34  
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Thanks Rick,
Looking forward to reading your info. Just called my local HS and they have one in stock. 199.99$Can. Might just rush down there and buy it.
Robert.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:30 PM
  #35  
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As for BEC's in parallel, I can not see any difference between having two computer 12v 5 Amp power supplies, connected in parallel, providing 12v @ 10 amps and doing the same with two BEC's. They are after all two power supplies, if they are both 1.5Amp supplies, in parallel they would be a 3Amp supply. Who and where does it say that electronic theory works for one thing and not for another, Physics and Ohms law cannot be changed at whim. I would like to read the logic behind the statement that "They do not work". I have a feeling that "Some BEC manufactures" are not regulating the output very well. If, for example, one BEC outputs 4.5v and not 5v as claimed and the other puts out a full 5v then current would flow between the two BECs as it would if you placed two car batteries in parallel if one was at 11.5v and the other was 12v, current would flow between the two batteries until they were at the same voltage. The current flow can be considerable, enough to melt wires in some cases. That is why a 100 Ohm 100Watt resistor is placed, if you are wise, in the circuit to limit the current flow to milliamperes until the two batteries are of equal voltage.
Robert.

Last edited by RMFISH; 07-08-2008 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:47 AM
  #36  
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i just ordered mine yesterday (phase 3)
guys, guess what 211$ and it comes with a battery
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:15 PM
  #37  
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Rick,
Thank you for the PM, good information, have copied and filed away for future reference.
Robert.
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:01 AM
  #38  
jkind
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Rocketman

What did they charge you for shipping to Canada?

Did it come by UPS?

Jim
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:37 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by jkind View Post
Rocketman

What did they charge you for shipping to Canada?

Did it come by UPS?

Jim
It shipped by UPS Ground the same day I ordered it and shipping cost $16.99. It took about a week to arrive and there was no duty or taxes. I don't know if I was just lucky or that is normal.

Rick
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:18 AM
  #40  
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I have had my P-38 for a few weeks now and today I got a bill in the mail from UPS for $60 for GST and brokerage fees.

I will never buy anything from across the border again if it will be shipped UPS.

If the same thing was shipped USPS I would have to pay GST-$10 and a handling fee of $5...a quarter of what UPS charged me.

Jim
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:40 PM
  #41  
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I have (had) the E Flight P-38 and other than a couple manufacturing problems it was a great bird. When I saw the price for the motor/speed control combo I couldn't resist. Very easy to assemble and fly for my first twin. Both motor stick mounts were loose in the foam so I squirted some FSCA to tighten them up and the wing spar joiner just above the battery tray was loose and required some 5-minute epoxy. On the 4th flight the rt motor stick broke in flight, I did land it without further damage and sent it back to Horizon for replacement. A couple lessons learned
1- if you use CA on the motor sticks, do so BEFORE installing the outer wing panels. I didn't and ended up gluing the outer panels on and had to destroy both wings to get it apart to ship back. Good thing I took pictures before.
2- differential thrust works great for ground handling without a servo on the nose gear. I bent the wire back approx 10 degrees near the wheel to add caster to aid in turning
3- mine required weight in the boom pods to balance, be careful about adding unnecessary weight to the nose. I did not use a nose gear servo.
4- there are plastic covers for the wiring with 2-face tape. Mine came loose before the first flight so I added external tape to secure them.
5- I only used 3 servos so I disconnected the BEC from the ESC connected to the rudder channel.
6- while trying to separate the wings the center fuse broke just in front of the battery tray. I'll fill the void with gorilla glue on the replacement
7- I painted the spinners and the front of the cowl yellow and it looked way cool.

That's it. Have fun.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:15 AM
  #42  
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quick question...in regards to amp draw...does the single battery have to carry the amps times two?

each motor produces x amount of amps so the battery must carry or manage x times two. Is that correct?

Also, can anyone tell me the dimensions of the battery tray in millimeters. I am thinking 25c 3s 2100 or 20c 3s 2200. My c rating will depend on the answer to the first question.

thanks in advance.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:44 AM
  #43  
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Yes, the batttery will have to handle the motor current times two. I forgot exactly what the total current draw was on mine but it was something around 35A using two Park 450s and 10x8 props. I used a TP2100 15C and a G-Force 1800 20C and they were able to handle "normal" flying with not too much full power without overheating.

I don't knwo the exact battery box dimensions but it was just wide enough for these batteries and they are 35mm wide. I estimate you could use a battery about 110mm long and 30mm high but no more than 35mm wide without enlarging the battery box.

My broken P38 arrived at Horizon today so I hope they ship the replacement out soon...it's probably asking too much to get it before the long holiday but I'll call tomorrow to ask.

Good luck
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:20 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by michael7810 View Post
Yes, the batttery will have to handle the motor current times two. I forgot exactly what the total current draw was on mine but it was something around 35A using two Park 450s and 10x8 props. I used a TP2100 15C and a G-Force 1800 20C and they were able to handle "normal" flying with not too much full power without overheating.

I don't knwo the exact battery box dimensions but it was just wide enough for these batteries and they are 35mm wide. I estimate you could use a battery about 110mm long and 30mm high but no more than 35mm wide without enlarging the battery box.

My broken P38 arrived at Horizon today so I hope they ship the replacement out soon...it's probably asking too much to get it before the long holiday but I'll call tomorrow to ask.

Good luck
thanks for the info...hope you get your bird fixed/replaced quickly.

Any tips on preparing undercarriage for belly landings or befing up LG for grass landings?
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:47 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by RMFISH View Post
As for BEC's in parallel, I can not see any difference between having two computer 12v 5 Amp power supplies, connected in parallel, providing 12v @ 10 amps and doing the same with two BEC's. They are after all two power supplies, if they are both 1.5Amp supplies, in parallel they would be a 3Amp supply.
Robert -- at my college, there were two engineering programs -- Engineering (mostly theory), and Engineering Technology (mostly lab work). In the Engineering Technology program, you learn that theory and reality rarely coexist!

Yes, you are right -- in theory. However, in reality, one of the BECs will overheat, and shut down due to thermal runaway. When the BEC shuts down, you lose ALL POWER to your receiver -- and your P-38 crashes.

Ask me how I know... :o I've crashed more P-38s than everything else combined!

(For what it's worth, "Loughead" (my screen name) is the original spelling of the Lockheed brothers' last name -- I'm a huge P-38 fan.)

Originally Posted by pstrdenver View Post
quick question...in regards to amp draw...does the single battery have to carry the amps times two?
Close -- but it's actually closer to 1.8 times the single motor amp draw.

You also get 1.8 times the thrust, and 0.8 times the speed of a single motor setup.

Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
If the E-Flite is a Honda and the Flying Styro is a Ferrari, then the Phase3 is a Mercedes.
Sweet! I have a Ferrari, and didn't even know it! Honestly, the Flying Styro P-38 is the EASIEST P-38 to fly (it's my second most successful P-38, to date) -- I highly recommend it.

So, if E-Flite = Honda, FSK = Ferrari, and Phase3 = Mercedes, then the GWS P-38 =
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:56 PM
  #46  
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well mine arrived safely today at the LHS. Home and building (slowly).

Going to modify/strengthen the CF rod connector in the center pod by wrapping it and gluing the wrap.

Will add some med CA to the motor stick mounts.

Anything else that you guys can think of? LG mods?

Thanks!
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:25 AM
  #47  
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You might want to look for a way to beef up the MLG attachment slots. When mine had the hard landing both main gear became very loose in the plastic slots. They were free to rotate about 1/2 inch back and forth. The wires didn't bend, just where they attach. If you find a good mod please post back. Mine should be here next week.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:14 PM
  #48  
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well I finished her last night. The only thing I think I'll have problems with is wiring the esc together without a way to "break" them apart for programming.

She's a heavy bird for sure. (36 oz)

I added a flat carbon spar on the trailing edge of the elevator to stiffen it a bit.

I wrapped the carbon spar joiner with ribbon and CA. (strong now)

No rudders, I did cut them off and reglue them on to make them stronger.

We'll see soon how well I did!!!!!
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:43 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by pstrdenver View Post
She's a heavy bird for sure. (36 oz)
Don't worry too much about that. Most of the P-38s I've flown of the same size, have been 35 to 40 ounces (yes, my heaviest one {an Air Devil P-38} was 40 ounces, and flew just fine).

Remember -- your P-38 has TWICE the thrust of a single-motor airplane. Those two props will drag that 36 ounce airplane through the air...

I just had my 81st and 82nd flights with my KarglUSA P-38 prototype this morning... P-38s are just too darned cool. Fun stuff.
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:16 PM
  #50  
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any tips on how to get my eflite 450 prop adapterd to stop flying off?

Happened twice now and the loosed prop cuts into the side of the Gondola. (is that what its called?)

thanks.

It feels so strong and powerful on the ground. Can't wait to fly her when my batteries come in.

What are your thoughts about my ESC situation. I took 16 inches of red and 16 inches of black wire, soldered an end to each esc. In the middle of the 16 inches where the wire goes through the battery bay I removed the silicon covering and soldered 4 inches of red wire and 4 inches of black with a deans on the end of that 4 inch section. To get the escs out you'll have to cut the wires. Can I program them at the same time? Should I cut them, program them and resolder. I want to eliminate the LVC to prevent one motor quitting early.
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