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Hangar 9 Fokker D VII

Old 02-14-2012, 05:06 AM
  #1  
hillbille
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Default Hangar 9 Fokker D VII

I am in process of completing a build of this fine model. I have the airframe together and am awaiting a few bits to be in a position to finish it. I have searched in most all the threads and have not seen either a "Build" thread or any real discussion threads on this particular model.

Shame really as it is a fabulous kit and looks really nice. Of course I have yet to fly it and that is where the questions start for me! LOL!!

I am curious as to what others experienced in electric power for this model. I am using the suggested E-Flite Power 60. I am planning to use a Master Airscrew 16 X 6 prop initially but may alter that according to specs and/or performance. If the amps are too high with that I will of course drop back to a 15 X 6. I am also curious as to what was used for balancing at the CG. I am trying to use everything I can to get as much of the flying weight as far forward as is possible in order NOT to need much ballast (lead) in the nose for proper CG. Just curious as to what others have (or did) do to get their planes to spec.

Surely I cannot be the only one building (or flying) this plane on electric power.

Hillbille
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:17 PM
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A guy here in Florida was flying one at local club but alas his was "slime powered" He loves it. At this time he has another fellow building the Hanger 9 Camel. I know it came with a ply box filled with weight (lead). In reading up on the Hanger 9 Camel I came across numerous threads where in a lot of weight was req:d to balance the Camel, up to a pound. As both planes are older versions you may have to go back a ways to find any thread info.
I found a thread from 2006 on a Fokker DVII( not H9) paint scheme and finally found the builder for some info.
I'm sure it's out there somewhere.Good luck and have a successful maiden flight.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:07 AM
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Thanks. I am still in the process of building. I just finished wrestling with the cowl to get it to fit right - tough fix AFTER the top wing is installed! LOL!! I am still awaiting batteries so the balancing will have to wait. I will go ahead and "plan" for weights though - getting mountings made - I didn't like the ply box idea as it seemed to me to be placed pretty far back and would just make adding more weight necessary so I am going with mounting my weights as far forward along the sides and in the cowl as is possible

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Old 02-15-2012, 02:45 PM
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I did find an electric build thread but it was pretty basic info. Agran1021 had a question on battery size for the DVII. Bottom of his profile was a magnifying glass. It's for other posts by Agran1021. There are quite a few and I scrolled thru a few pages and found his build thread on the H9 Dvii.
On one of the British sites for the Camel the builder finalized his weight amount and then molded it into the 3 bottom engine cylinders of the dummy engine mount. That's about as far forward as you can get. These guys are real detailed builders and even removed any weight on the tail end as they could. I found most of these threads on either Wattflyer or RCG.

Last edited by touche; 02-15-2012 at 02:51 PM. Reason: updated info
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:32 AM
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Hillbillie
Did you see the forum on this kit on EZone. It is under the scale plane section. They did a product review that you might find helpful. I have this one with a Monster power 60. I would recomend not using the ESC H9 suggest. Mine failed and I almost lost the plane. I learned my lesson that big electrics need a seperate BEC to deal with the loads. I use a 6 cell 4000 mah battery with a 85 amp Hobby Wing opto ESC. My BEC is from castle. I get 10 min flight easy

Taylor
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:35 AM
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Yes using a separate UBEC has been my policy for a while now - even on low servo count planes like this one. I am using an 85 amp ESC coupled with a 5a UBEC. I am using the E-Flite Power 60 in mine. I will use 5000mah 6s1p batteries when I get a chance to maiden her. The weather is not cooperating right now!! LOL!!

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Old 02-29-2012, 07:44 PM
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If it's any help, I've built both the Camel and the NP DR1, both short nose usually really tail heavy builds.

Some thing I did on them to keep the dead weight down.

First did not mount the tail servos in the stock location. Moved em inside and as far forward as possible.

Run both on 6S, using two 3S packs that I can stand up in an inverted V, up against the firewall.

Lastly, went old school for rx power. Used an rx pack, 5 C cell pack mounted to the motor mount.

All of these move weight to the nose and away from the tail.

Better to have useful weight then adding dead.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:37 AM
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Hillbillie
The biggest issue in building the plane is getting access to the battery. With the top wing on it takes small hands. My big meat puppets just didn't work so I made my own battery mount. Glacier Girls recomendation on battery choice might give you more flexibility. I had to add a fair amount of weight to the nose. I think you are going to love the way it flys. I cheated and put a gyro in it at the end of the last flying season and it really helped make me look like I know how to fly a tail dragger.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:44 AM
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I might try a gyro - what would be a good one to use? I have already purchased the 6s 5000mah batteries so those are what I will use. The batteries are bricks! LOL!! That being said they also do NOT seem to alter the CG by a great margin. I have got the battery to go in with OUT the supplied battery tray which I found to be very awkward to use. Instead the battery will lay flat on the bottom of the fuse and be slid forward up against the firewall. Well actually I did put a small barrier over the screw heads that protruded through the firewall - a section of ply was epoxied in to prevent the batteries from hitting them - so the batteries are as far forward as I can get them and as low in the fuse as is possible. I am using velcro sections front and rear of the batteries (opposite weaves - one hook and one loop at opposite ends) this way the FORWARD end will only adhere to the section of velcro that is against the firewall and the front section does not grab until the battery is seated as far forward as it will go. It is a pretty good and very solid setup. Since I do not anticipate ANY outside loops or inverted immelmans it should hold for MY normal WWI flying!

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Old 03-02-2012, 04:49 AM
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Sounds like our approach to the battery is very similar. I put some triangle stock along the bottom to create lateral support for the battery to keep it shifting from side to side. I used a cheap head lock gyro from hobby partz. I got the idea from an article in Model Airplane News a few years ago. It was b very easy to install in the d7 since you have so much room in the fuselage.

Taylor
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:10 PM
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A fella just finished building a H9 Camel, fuel job with a Saito engine. He had to put 2.9 lbs of weight into the box just to balance it. How much does the fokker require..
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:45 AM
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hillbille, for your own piece of mind, take some scrap wood and and make a mock up of your battery setup. That's a big old battery, and I'm not to sure a couple of pieces of velcro will keep it locked in place. All you need is a loop or roll, and that pack could go flying backwards.

On my Camel, I used a piece of foam, between the packs and bulkhead behind them. Just wedged it in. Keeps the packs nice and secure. And I beat the living daylights out of the Camel, and never had a pack come loose.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:57 AM
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I used 12.6 ounces positioned out on the front cowl sides. I am now thinking that I may hav go over some with that much - but I am going to leave it where it is until the maiden flight and then see how it does. I think it will be fine but you never know. What changed things for me was the decision to throw away the battery tray and get the battery flat in the fuse and as close to the firewall as I could. What a difference moving the battery made! Now it "feels" nose heavy even though it still is within the balance range - now more toward the front of that range than the rear though.

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Old 03-03-2012, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Glacier Girl View Post
hillbille, for your own piece of mind, take some scrap wood and and make a mock up of your battery setup. That's a big old battery, and I'm not to sure a couple of pieces of velcro will keep it locked in place. All you need is a loop or roll, and that pack could go flying backwards.

On my Camel, I used a piece of foam, between the packs and bulkhead behind them. Just wedged it in. Keeps the packs nice and secure. And I beat the living daylights out of the Camel, and never had a pack come loose.

Foam wedge - good idea!! I'll do that before the first flight! Thanks!

Hillbille
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:17 AM
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A good sized thread on the Hanger9 DVII in 'warbirds' forum, RCGroups.
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:36 AM
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Hillbillie
Your not far off on the nose weight from my experience. I was at about 10oz without the battery tray and a small sound module from Ram for the machine guns. Yes i know its hokie but it is kind of cool during low passes My friend has the Camel and he had to pack it with weight. Always the challenge with short nosed Sopwiths It still flys great ut its ground handling requires some skill
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:53 PM
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Okay, just for the giggle factor. I bought two of the Xoar WWI scimitar props for this plane as it does cry out for one. I put the 16 X 8 on. Had to do a little work to get it to fit as it is quite thick and the Power 60 prop adapter is not very long! After a little work it fit just fine and I double checked it for balance (came perfectly balanced anyway but I wanted to make certain I had not knocked it off balance when I was milling it out to fit).

I had the plane on the table and the wattmeter was right there. The radio was there. I was there and the battery was charged.

65 amps initial falling to 63 and holding steady there. Showing 1135 watts. I didn't test it but twice - and quickly - but it was the same both times so I figure it is correct.

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Old 08-29-2012, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by floss View Post
A good sized thread on the Hanger9 DVII in 'warbirds' forum, RCGroups.

Ahhh, Yes sir you are right except you failed to mention that the thread is in the FUEL area and is devoted to people building the plane with IC power. I didn't do that as mine is all electric!! LOL!!






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Old 08-29-2012, 06:52 AM
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No, I mean electric warbirds - theres a good forum on it there.

Cool picture Hillbille
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:56 AM
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The thread at RCG under RCGroups>Aircraft-Electric Warbirds is one that I started there when I was building the plane. I put it there because I could NOT find any reference to the Hangar 9 Fokker D VII THERE.

The fabulous thread YOU are referring to is NOT under Electric Warbirds - but is listed under Scale Electric Planes:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...angar+9+fokker

I only found it because another poster pointed it out (posted the link to it) AFTER I had started the thread. I agree it is a really good build thread but didn't really help me with my build much as by the time I "found" it my plane was already built.

The thread SHOULD have been moved a long time ago to the proper location (Electric Warbirds) as that thread is where EVERYBODY THINKS it is already when in fact it is not. I don't usually look for war planes in the "scale" section as that is usually - I say USUALLY - reserved for civilian aircraft and especially when there is a specific area (Warbird) for war planes.

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Old 08-29-2012, 10:38 AM
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This is the thread in electric warbirds - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...anger+9+fokker

are you called Fockewulf37 (as well as hillbille) or do you just not now how to use a search function? The thread has over 100 replies and was started in 2008.

Most of the planes featured in the scale forum at RC Groups are warbirds, but they are scale and thats why they are there. 99% of the planes in the warbirds forum are ARF's and not scale as most ARFs are ................... so they are not in the scale forum.


Hope this HELPS
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:37 PM
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I guess I am like most people that have tried to get along over on RCG and am considered an ignoramus and am just too stupid to properly search there as the five separate searches I have done only show me 11 pages of posts and that one was not one of them. I do want to thank you for pointing out in true typical RCG style how totally stupid I am. If ever I can return the favor I hope I don't.

BTW - NO I am not Fockewulf37, I am Hillbille on this forum and on 4 other forums I post to regularly.

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Old 08-29-2012, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by floss View Post
This is the thread in electric warbirds - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...anger+9+fokker

are you called Fockewulf37 (as well as hillbille) or do you just not now how to use a search function? The thread has over 100 replies and was started in 2008.

Most of the planes featured in the scale forum at RC Groups are warbirds, but they are scale and thats why they are there. 99% of the planes in the warbirds forum are ARF's and not scale as most ARFs are ................... so they are not in the scale forum.


Hope this HELPS
After looking the thread over (again) I realized that I had seen it before. The OP built his plane in 6 hours and took about 3 photos and those were AFTER most of the assembly was already done. Most of the other photos in the thread are from a guy that built his using GLOW power. The other thread - the one in the "Scale" area is a build thread about ELECTRIC power and has many many more photographs of the build process for the H9 DVII. Also the reason the thread you pointed out did not show in any of the searches I did was the misspelling of the word Hangar as Hanger. But I guess most people don't know how to spell anyway so I should have dumbed down and found the right way to do a search for all the possibilities especially incorrectly spelled key words in title searches.


BTW - I am learning how to use the "search" feature over there. Soon I will know how to do it properly but it will take time.

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Old 05-02-2013, 11:21 AM
  #24  
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Default Some ideas to balance the Hangar 9 DVII

I have managed to purchase a rare NIB Hangar 9 Fokker DVII and look forward to assembing it with an electric motor. I have read with interest how balancng the model has been achieved. Has anyone used a motor larger than an E-Flite Power 60 to add nose weight and power ? I also noticed the kit has these heavy non-magnetic IC engine mounts which could be cut off at the ends and mounted wide in the engine cowling to add balancing weight. Also, there are two forward slots for thottle servos which could be used for the elevator and rudder. It would make for a long control rods, but properly supported along the way, it should still work fine.

I like the idea of more than one battery (smaller batteries adding up to same mah) to bring the weight forward. Will be exploring that option.

From the videos and reviews it seems that the E-flite Power 60 has enough power for this plane, however, has anyone successfully use a more powerful motor ?. If so, what is your setup ?

I read in a review that it could use more rudder. Has anyone made the rudder larger, say by adding an 1 inch of area to the rounded curved edge. I know it is not scale, but it would still be close enough in appearance and rudder control may be improved.

Yes, the decal wings on the sword look awful, so I removed them and replaced them with a more rounded wing at the top (with white trim sheet), looks much better. a little rubbing alcohol removed the adhesive residue. Also, the blank white panel at the top of the wing is begging for a fix, so it will recieve two stripes in the same sky blue. The result will be three equally spaced white stripes and two sky blue stripes. Will eventually replace the sword with wings decal with something else, the lightening bolt would look great.

I appreciate any advice you can offer.

Thanks

Creative RC

Last edited by CreativeRC; 05-02-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:49 AM
  #25  
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Creative RC,

Please forgive my late replying to your query's but I have been really busy with other projects!

Yes is the answer to the question you most need answered. I have read of people putting in Power 90's and one individual put in a 110. It will work, but it totally unnecessary.

The power 60 is more than enough motor for this plane. I have enough power with mine that I fly it around in a scale like manner at just slightly over 1/2 throttle. Also the scale props that I purchased (16 X 8's) at $22 ea. will actually come apart in mid air if I throttle up too fast! I think it is the torque and speed of the electric motor spinning up so much faster than an IC motor does that is doing it. Nice and gentle for me! LOL!!

The other problem you may NOT have given any thought to is the batteries you would need for a larger motor. I fly mine with 5 cell batteries of 5000 mah capacity. If I had used a Power 90 I couldn't do that I don't think as it wouldn't generate enough kv or rpm's for the size prop needed. Say you went up in prop size and used a 17 X 7 or even a 17 X 6 you would still need nearly the same SPEED from it, so you might need a 6 or even a 7 or 8 cell batteries at the same or larger capacity for the same flight times.

The balance for this plane is pretty critical, but easily achieved. I simply set my plane on a balancer and added lead to the nose until it balanced. Then ended up adding 9.5 ounces to the nose structure under the cowl. There is SO much room in there you could do it in almost any way you want.

Mine is a very good flying plane and I really enjoy it. It looks good both in the air and on the ground. I did what you thought of though with the servos for the Rudder and Elevator in that I mounted them in the most forward position - where the fuel throttle servo should have gone. Drawback is that that placement limits the size of HAND that can hold a battery and still clear everything to get down into the space for the battery - AND - after it is in place you will need a hand in there to connect the power connectors! UGH!! But it certainly worked for me as you have seen from the flight photos!

Good luck with your build and I hope you really enjoy flying this beast!!

Hillbille
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