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Soldering wires together

Old 04-18-2011, 02:18 AM
  #51  
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
I have one more question: Despite all my efforts the tip of my iron is getting black spots that will not tin. Is there a way to remove the black (I assume it's an oxide) without ruining the tip?

I've heard that abrasives are a no-no because they remove the chrome and render the tip useless.

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Take a magnet, and see if it sticks to the tip of your iron. If it does, your soldering iron has an iron plated tip, and hitting it with a file will remove the very thin iron plating. (An iron plated tip will last far longe than a bare copper tip.)

If your soldering iron is bare copper, just hit it with a file. After enough times, you'd have to replace the tip anyhow.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:50 AM
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Sal ammoniac is a solid chemical used to clean soldering iron tips. It is sold in most stained glass shops. The small 1/4 lb size will last most a life time. To use you just melt solder directly on top of the block and rub the iron on the block till all the accumulated grunge is dissolved and a nice tinned tip remains. Use a cellulose sponge moistened with water only to keep the tip clean while soldering and only use the sal ammoniac if untinned spots return.

http://www.johnsonmfg.com/temp/SalBlock.htm
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:03 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
These butt crimp sleeves work well, and the company I worked for used them by the thousands every week.

But, the proper crimping tool is required with them, those $3.99 crimpers found in the local stores just don't cut it. The crimpers we used at work were well North of $200 each.

Also don't know how they would work with some of the higher currents used on the larger kilowatt sized models and their #10 or #12 wire.

Not sure how much mine cost but it was under $30. Works fine on 10-12 wire, some of my joints are a few years old & still tight. That being said I am not running anything more then 1700-1800 watts on 8S

On the tip cleaning, don't know if its a no no, but I use a wet scotch-brite sponge to keep the tip clean. Wipe it down after every joint.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:12 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
On the tip cleaning, don't know if its a no no, but I use a wet scotch-brite sponge to keep the tip clean. Wipe it down after every joint.
IMHO, a lot of the problems with crud on the soldering iron tip results from very high temperatures of the tip when you're not soldering, AND the soldering iron does not have temperature regulation. I've measured the tip temperature of some of those uncontrolled irons at over 900 degrees, some were pushing 1000F. If you wipe the tip of your iron with a paper towel, and the paper towel starts smoking, odds are your iron is far to hot. (Many many years ago, I did this at work, wiped a soldering iron tip with a paper towel, tossed it into the trash can, and set fire to the trash can. Not a good idea on the second week on the job.)

I've got several temperature regulated soldering irons, and even the 100 watt iron never gets crud burned on the tip.

These temperature regulated irons are expensive, take a look:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...&name=WES51-ND This iron has a variety of tips available from needle point to a 0.090 inch diameter tip.

I've also got a Weller 100 watt temperature regulated soldering iron, W100P. This one has a 3/8 inch iron plated tip that has absolutely zero problems soldering a piece of #12 wire directly to either the top or bottom of an A123 cell. Without burning it up in the process. Nice thing about these irons is the tip temperature stays fairly constant, something that is important both for a person well experienced in soldering, as well as someone who is not.

Last edited by kyleservicetech; 04-18-2011 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:17 AM
  #55  
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just read this thread from beginingg to end and have always had good times soldering,but tonight i must say i was beaten by the wires on small motors i'v had in a drawer.

i'm replacing the motor on the airfoil yak foamie,and no matter how hard i tried the solder wouldn't stick to the motor wires....the esc wires soaked the solder up just as always...the motor might as well have a repellent as nothing stuck and the joints didn't hold at all. this caused me to try a sk 28-35-750 tunigy which soldered instantly but dosn't have the power with 3 cells,ad i don't want to buy small 4cells for a small foamie.

i may just give jeff at hurc a try.
has anyone else ever given up on a motor that wouldn't solder. another issue was these motors had been installed in other planes and the motor wire were getting close to the mount.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:10 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by stuart View Post
just read this thread from beginingg to end and have always had good times soldering,but tonight i must say i was beaten by the wires on small motors i'v had in a drawer.

i'm replacing the motor on the airfoil yak foamie,and no matter how hard i tried the solder wouldn't stick to the motor wires....the esc wires soaked the solder up just as always...the motor might as well have a repellent as nothing stuck and the joints didn't hold at all. this caused me to try a sk 28-35-750 tunigy which soldered instantly but dosn't have the power with 3 cells,ad i don't want to buy small 4cells for a small foamie.

i may just give jeff at hurc a try.
has anyone else ever given up on a motor that wouldn't solder. another issue was these motors had been installed in other planes and the motor wire were getting close to the mount.
Uh Oh

The wire you're trying to solder to is likely magnet wire with a very thin coating of insulating varnish. That coating is on the order of 0.0005 inch thick or so, a half thousands of an inch. (I doubt if the wires are aluminum, at least hope not)

One quick way to find out is take a common digital multimeter, set its range to its lowest resistance range, and touch its probes together. The meter should indicate zero ohms or pretty close, depending on how good its leads are.

If it does show zero, then touch one of the motor leads with one of the meter probes, and with the other meter probe, touch the same motor lead strand 1/4 inch or so away. If it shows open circuit, those leads are likely coated with insulating varnish.

Some folks have found heating the lead wire in an asprin tablet or something with an iron will take the varnish off. Don't know, never tried it. What I've done many many times is "Shine" up the strand with a sharp knife, working around each strand, one at a time until all strands are shiny copper color. It is a real pain in the ***, but it will work.

Problem is doing this is likely to knick or even cut off the wire strand, and you've all ready indicated the motors wires are rather short. And after all the motor wires have been shined up, then wrap the strands of each of the three motor wires separately and "Tin" them with a soldering iron and solder.

Good luck, (you might need it )
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:35 PM
  #57  
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Do not attempt to use "lead free solder" it makes an expert solderer look like a beginner. Read labels carefully, use only 60/40 tin/lead rosin cored solder and rosin-type paste flux. Wipe the tip of your soldering iron continuously and retin with fresh solder during soldering and after, unplug iron when not in use. Use a 37 to 47 watt iron with replaceable tips. A flat or chisel tip is best for Deans Ultra connections. Use a small bridge of solder between iron tip and wire and terminal to conduct heat quickly to both . Apply solder to just fill the joint, remove heat and hold wire steady while solder solidifies

Don't forget to strip and tin wires and terminals before soldering. Install heat shrink tubing on wire away from heat. Strip,tin, solder and insulate one battery pack wire at a time to avoid fire and possible injury. Use a heat gun to shrink heat shrink tubing (HST). Reliable soldering, without heat damage, requires technique learned by practicing and observation.
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:08 PM
  #58  
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My cheap hardwood block with holes drilled in it to hold my bullet connectors ,i clamp it in a small but heavy vise so its easy to solder with out moving around on me. I have other hard wood blocks that i have made holes for deans connectors and others so it frees up my hands to hold the iron and solder. joe
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:41 PM
  #59  
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If you solder alot,,snag one of these. I did the wood block thing for years. I just cant look at them anymore after this tool became available.

http://thejigsup.net/
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:59 PM
  #60  
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If you pick up a cheap pack of snap clothpins, it is easy to make many useful gadgets from them. They work well and are very inexpensive. Just use you nogin a bit and modify the tip shape and the way they are put together to make many useful items.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:48 PM
  #61  
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If you do a lot of soldering I recommend purchasing a soldering station such as this for the best and most consistent results. Sure you spend a bit more but your battery packs, ESCs, motors and all other electronics will thank you for it.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:55 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Modifier View Post
If you solder alot,,snag one of these. I did the wood block thing for years. I just cant look at them anymore after this tool became available.

http://thejigsup.net/
That has it all but iam just to dam cheap .lol I can get blocks of steel for free from my local steel company that i buy my steel for houses i build .I also have a lathe and drill press for drilling or grinding steel. For right now my wood ones work fine but will build my own steel one someday . For a new builder the one you showed would help them greatly on holding their stuff to solder but like i said iam old school and to dam cheap.lol joe
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:03 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by road king 97 View Post
That has it all but iam just to dam cheap .lol I can get blocks of steel for free from my local steel company that i buy my steel for houses i build .I also have a lathe and drill press for drilling or grinding steel. For right now my wood ones work fine but will build my own steel one someday . For a new builder the one you showed would help them greatly on holding their stuff to solder but like i said iam old school and to dam cheap.lol joe
LOL
A while back I caught myself ready to solder the second red wire to my Deans connector, with the pins on the other end secured in my mini-vise with its steel jaws.

That's a dead short, and it would have been interesting to say the least.
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:28 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
LOL
A while back I caught myself ready to solder the second red wire to my Deans connector, with the pins on the other end secured in my mini-vise with its steel jaws.

That's a dead short, and it would have been interesting to say the least.
I put some tape around the ones hanging loose now so i dont have the fourth of july in my workroom while soldering but its happend before .lol joe
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:14 PM
  #65  
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Have one of the Hakko FX-888 stations that I picked up cheap. Now that thing spoils you, it just makes it to easy. Instant preheat,,ready to go in seconds. Went thru a dozen or more Radio Snack 40 watt irons over the years.

They have a new digital version out I see.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...dering-Station
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:11 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Modifier View Post
Have one of the Hakko FX-888 stations that I picked up cheap. Now that thing spoils you, it just makes it to easy. Instant preheat,,ready to go in seconds. Went thru a dozen or more Radio Snack 40 watt irons over the years.

They have a new digital version out I see.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...dering-Station
Yup

After 50 years of soldering with a whole slew of different soldering irons over that period of time, my two main soldering units are a Weller 40 watt temperature regulated iron with various tip sizes from needle point to about 1/8 inch in diameter, and a Weller 100 watt temperature regulated soldering iron with a 3/8 inch diameter tip. Both have iron plated tips that last a long long time.

And I've got a box of old unregulated soldering irons, along with three soldering guns that are gathering dust.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:39 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
I have just ruined a brand new NiMH pack trying to solder the wires of a pre-wired Deans' connector to the wires off the pack. The solder will not to melt into the wire (it melts fine when in contact with the iron).
I have just read the entire thread and although you are getting some very good advice I would like to ask a question.

Noting that you are attempting to solder wire-to-wire onto a NiMH pack that was already pre wired, I also will ASS-U-ME that this MIGHT be a new pack for an electric vehicle that does not fly - but has wheels - like a car or truck.

If that is correct then it would be my opinion that what you are doing might not work too well - even if your soldering job is/was perfect.

WHY? Because car and truck (on-road and off-road) ESC's tend to pull a LOT of amperage and the wires heat up - sometimes very much. Wires will - or might get hot enough to come un-soldered. I have seen this happen to professional racers during a race so it has nothing to do with your experience or soldering skills.

It might be better to just solder the Deans connector direct to the packs existing wires - unless the reason you are doing this is because the pack's wires are too short for your application.

Perhaps a good remedy for your situation might be to get some 3mm or 4mm female connectors and solder your wire ends into both ends of the connector. I should think that that would achieve your goal and be much simpler to do and also much safer - of course I could be way off base here with my assumption - if so please excuse the query!! LOL!!

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Old 09-26-2013, 07:56 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by hillbille View Post
I have just read the entire thread and although you are getting some very good advice I would like to ask a question.

Noting that you are attempting to solder wire-to-wire onto a NiMH pack that was already pre wired, I also will ASS-U-ME that this MIGHT be a new pack for an electric vehicle that does not fly - but has wheels - like a car or truck.

If that is correct then it would be my opinion that what you are doing might not work too well - even if your soldering job is/was perfect.

WHY? Because car and truck (on-road and off-road) ESC's tend to pull a LOT of amperage and the wires heat up - sometimes very much. Wires will - or might get hot enough to come un-soldered. I have seen this happen to professional racers during a race so it has nothing to do with your experience or soldering skills.

It might be better to just solder the Deans connector direct to the packs existing wires - unless the reason you are doing this is because the pack's wires are too short for your application.

Perhaps a good remedy for your situation might be to get some 3mm or 4mm female connectors and solder your wire ends into both ends of the connector. I should think that that would achieve your goal and be much simpler to do and also much safer - of course I could be way off base here with my assumption - if so please excuse the query!! LOL!!

Hillbille
You dont post often hillbille but when you do its spot on,i solder deans connectors right on to my batterys and esc's but alway tape the ends before starting and once one is done soldered then heat shrink it right away before moving on to the next one . If i make a extention it has a deans plug on each end so i dont have a long lead on my esc or battery. I try and keep evey thing as short as possible but if i have to make a extention its thicker wire than what the esc and battery is using. Do i know all things electrict ,no but i try. lol joe
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:00 PM
  #69  
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If your solder joint is getting so hot it is melting the solder and failing, you made a poor solder joint to begin with. Heat is a function of resistance times current so, to get that hot, the resistance had to be very high. Ipsofacto, bad solder joint with high impedance. That will not happen with a well made solder connection if the cross section of the area being soldered is as large as the wire and connector pins are and you are using the proper gage wire.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:21 PM
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And if you are trying to connect permanently wire to wire and pull ALOT of amps,,it would be even better to use a crimp connector and heat shrink to protect that. Extra resistance?,,yes,,but the joint will not fail during operation
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:53 PM
  #71  
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Neither will it fail if you overlap the wires enough and if possible twisting them together never hurts.
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:34 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Modifier View Post
And if you are trying to connect permanently wire to wire and pull ALOT of amps,,it would be even better to use a crimp connector and heat shrink to protect that. Extra resistance?,,yes,,but the joint will not fail during operation
Ah, Nope

I've checked the resistance of a soldered connection versus the resistance of the "Original Anderson Power Pole Connectors" available only from Allied Electronics.

The crimped connector has lower resistance than that soldered connection. Solder itself is not the best conductor of electricity when pulling these high currents on the order of 60 amps plus. This type of test is not difficult to do. What I did was push about 20 Amps DC through the different connectors, then measured the voltage drop across that connector on my $$$$ Fluke 87V meter on its high resolution setting. That allows measuring down to 0.1 millivolt, or 0.0001 volts resolution across your connectors pins.

Take a look:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64539

Somewhere in youtube, some guy wildly abused the Deans Connector and the APP connectors by hitting them with over 200 Amps. The Deans connector butt type solder joint blew out instantly. Those APP connectors just smoked for 30 seconds while the wires overheated to the point of burning off the insulation. The plastic shell of the APP connectors eventually melted. And, the Allied version of the APP connectors are even better than those APP connectors.
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:48 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Ah, Nope

I've checked the resistance of a soldered connection versus the resistance of the "Original Anderson Power Pole Connectors" available only from Allied Electronics.

The crimped connector has lower resistance than that soldered connection. Solder itself is not the best conductor of electricity when pulling these high currents on the order of 60 amps plus. This type of test is not difficult to do. What I did was push about 20 Amps DC through the different connectors, then measured the voltage drop across that connector on my $$$$ Fluke 87V meter on its high resolution setting. That allows measuring down to 0.1 millivolt, or 0.0001 volts resolution across your connectors pins.

Take a look:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64539

Somewhere in youtube, some guy wildly abused the Deans Connector and the APP connectors by hitting them with over 200 Amps. The Deans connector butt type solder joint blew out instantly. Those APP connectors just smoked for 30 seconds while the wires overheated to the point of burning off the insulation. The plastic shell of the APP connectors eventually melted. And, the Allied version of the APP connectors are even better than those APP connectors.

All good info,,but,,if it is a poorly crimped crimp connector,,it will have more resistance,,period. If it is not crimped correctly. A poor crimp will smoke the lead in wires to the connector and your resistance goes up,,been there, done that ,checked that. I guess I should have specified that a bit better. sorry.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:24 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Modifier View Post
All good info,,but,,if it is a poorly crimped crimp connector,,it will have more resistance,,period. If it is not crimped correctly. A poor crimp will smoke the lead in wires to the connector and your resistance goes up,,been there, done that ,checked that. I guess I should have specified that a bit better. sorry.
Yeah
You raise very good points. At work, we used very expensive crimping tools for those APP connectors. Like well over $500 each. And, if they were air operated, if you have to ask, you can't afford it!!! Every terminal through out the shop had a designated part number for the crimping tool to be used. And, every one of those crimping tools were checked every year by the QA department. Any crimping tool that did not meet specifications either had their jaws replaced, or became scrap metal.

You are NOT going to get a very good crimping job on these APP terminals (Or any terminal for that matter) by crimping them with a pair of pliers. A proper crimping tool will actually compress the terminal crimping area into the copper wire, resulting in a gas tight joint. And, even a commercial duty crimping tool can be set wrong, and fail to properly compress the terminal into the copper wire. Years ago, I was lucky enough to have to travel to a number of our customers up and down the East coast of the USA, and re-do a battery connector on our equipment that was improperly crimped.

Lucky for us, places like Maxx Products sell a very useable crimping tool for about $39.00. No, this crimping tool is not commercial duty, but on the other hand, we don't use these crimper tools 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and 52 weeks a year.

Last edited by kyleservicetech; 09-28-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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