Just picked up an eflite ascent 450 glider-SWEET!
03-08-2009, 07:43 AM
#26
New Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10
Flying the Ascent 450 BL
Originally Posted by *rider
Are folks still having fun with their Ascent 450 BL's? Mine has been built & bench tested for awhile but I have yet to maiden, wanted to start with the ParkZone Radian. The build went well and I have the recommended e-flite battery, and ar6100, just waiting on a calm day & nerve to maiden. I did check the ESC programming and the brake works - so I think I'm all set for maiden just check CG & whatnot.
At limit of visibility, have never had a reception problem with the AR 6100.
"Warning" Motor is an outrunner, so make sure wires from motor are secured against inside of fuselage. I thought they were clear, but had some binding, and could have burned out the motor/ESC.
One other item, I had one of the plywood control horns pull off a control surface (elevator) . Either it happened with a crash, or the control horn pulled in mid-air, and caused the crash. Pull it out now, and epoxy it back in place (both).
I would limit the rudder travel a bit, at full travel I managed to spin the Ascent twice....just center the stick, and it rolls wings level,,,if you have enough altitude to recover.
Get an extra prop, when they are in stock.
Good Luck
Last edited by 320pilot; 03-17-2009 at 01:11 AM. Reason: edit text
03-08-2009, 06:14 PM
#27
Always Fixing Something
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 286
Thanks for the info!! I will take your advice re: the bellcranks and use some epoxy. Good to know you have had no issues w/ar6100 as that is what I have installed. I did secure the motor leads as that just jumped out at me like "danger danger" lol.
I forgot to update you folks - I did maiden this a few weekends ago with limited success. I did a thorough pre-flight check, everything appeared OK, C/G good, etc. launched, climbed out nicely, felt like the rudder had lots of authority on right-hand turns went to correct and realized I had literally _no_ rudder authority on left-hand turns
knew I had to bring it in so cut motor and gently circled right until I lost enough altitude to gently plop it in the grass.
No damage - checked everything again - looked OK, re-launched, same scary situation! Landed safely again.
Called my buddy and he said "weird bring it over to the shop" so we checked it out w/incidence meter and turns out I needed sub trim / travel adjust to fix, it was moving to the right per the manual but the travel to the left was insufficient. Visually it looked OK but clearly it was causing an issue!
It's sitting @ my office desk waiting for a lunch break on a nice day.
How much do you recommend I should limit travel on the rudder? It's set to manual spec. right now. Thanks!
I forgot to update you folks - I did maiden this a few weekends ago with limited success. I did a thorough pre-flight check, everything appeared OK, C/G good, etc. launched, climbed out nicely, felt like the rudder had lots of authority on right-hand turns went to correct and realized I had literally _no_ rudder authority on left-hand turns
knew I had to bring it in so cut motor and gently circled right until I lost enough altitude to gently plop it in the grass.No damage - checked everything again - looked OK, re-launched, same scary situation! Landed safely again.
Called my buddy and he said "weird bring it over to the shop" so we checked it out w/incidence meter and turns out I needed sub trim / travel adjust to fix, it was moving to the right per the manual but the travel to the left was insufficient. Visually it looked OK but clearly it was causing an issue!
It's sitting @ my office desk waiting for a lunch break on a nice day.
How much do you recommend I should limit travel on the rudder? It's set to manual spec. right now. Thanks!
03-08-2009, 10:04 PM
#28
New Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10
Rudder travel Ascent 450 BL
Looks like I reduced rudder travel on mine to 5/8 inches left and 5/8 inches right. Try this and see what you think.
Manual for the Ascent say 1 1/2 inch rudder travel right and left. I found that with that much travel, it really flipped it into a (too) steep bank, and possible spin if you suddenly give it a hard over stick at lower speed.
I will keep out of trouble with this setup, until I know the glider better.
My rudder center is offset a bit ( a little left rudder bias) . I don't know if this was to counteract torque, ie "P effect" or my mis-aligned horizontal stab.
Elevator travel is 1/2 inch up travel, a little more down. I didn't program in high rate yet.
To be fair, I like to fly wide, scale turns, and have a large field to fly in/over. I haven't had a chance to really try and climb in a thermal yet.
Feed in a bit of power, when you bank it in a turn, especially at low level. In level flight it will fly at about 1/4 throttle. A tight turn, in level flight I go to 1/2 throttle.
A few other ideas; When I walk to the middle of a field , to launch I carry an extra canopy screw. I remove the rear canopy screw, then pivot the canopy (loosen front screw) to side. Carry a small philips screw driver in your pocket. Connect the LiPo then replace rear screw of canopy (if you didn't drop it in the grass).
I can launch mine solo now. Hold it at rear of fuselage, by TE of wing at eye level . After a quick control check, start timer, go to 3/4 throttle then I place my left hand on the elevator/aileron stick, give it a little nose up elevator input, then a gentle launch. It climbs like a bat-out-of-h**l . Now quickly move right hand back to right stick..then left hand left stick to reduce throttle.
You need a neck strap for this to work.
When you come into land, I pull power to idle at about 40 feet high on base turn, turning final nose it down a bit in the turn (helps fold the prop) then just hold it a few inches off the grass. It will float a long time in ground effect, so give yourself a lot of room first few times. If it just had flaps or spoilers....
One other thing I really like is spare parts are available (from time to time)and not too expensive. A set of wings are less than replacement main blades for my Trex 500 heli. I now have an extra set of Ascent wings , stab/rudder and fuselage on hand "just in case".
good luck
Manual for the Ascent say 1 1/2 inch rudder travel right and left. I found that with that much travel, it really flipped it into a (too) steep bank, and possible spin if you suddenly give it a hard over stick at lower speed.
I will keep out of trouble with this setup, until I know the glider better.
My rudder center is offset a bit ( a little left rudder bias) . I don't know if this was to counteract torque, ie "P effect" or my mis-aligned horizontal stab.
Elevator travel is 1/2 inch up travel, a little more down. I didn't program in high rate yet.
To be fair, I like to fly wide, scale turns, and have a large field to fly in/over. I haven't had a chance to really try and climb in a thermal yet.
Feed in a bit of power, when you bank it in a turn, especially at low level. In level flight it will fly at about 1/4 throttle. A tight turn, in level flight I go to 1/2 throttle.
A few other ideas; When I walk to the middle of a field , to launch I carry an extra canopy screw. I remove the rear canopy screw, then pivot the canopy (loosen front screw) to side. Carry a small philips screw driver in your pocket. Connect the LiPo then replace rear screw of canopy (if you didn't drop it in the grass).
I can launch mine solo now. Hold it at rear of fuselage, by TE of wing at eye level . After a quick control check, start timer, go to 3/4 throttle then I place my left hand on the elevator/aileron stick, give it a little nose up elevator input, then a gentle launch. It climbs like a bat-out-of-h**l . Now quickly move right hand back to right stick..then left hand left stick to reduce throttle.
You need a neck strap for this to work.
When you come into land, I pull power to idle at about 40 feet high on base turn, turning final nose it down a bit in the turn (helps fold the prop) then just hold it a few inches off the grass. It will float a long time in ground effect, so give yourself a lot of room first few times. If it just had flaps or spoilers....
One other thing I really like is spare parts are available (from time to time)and not too expensive. A set of wings are less than replacement main blades for my Trex 500 heli. I now have an extra set of Ascent wings , stab/rudder and fuselage on hand "just in case".
good luck
06-27-2010, 10:15 PM
#32
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Hi
I am considering buying an Ascent 450. At my club 2 guys have them, here is what they found: The control rods flex when they are pushing the linkages, they told me left turns and down are affected by this. They reinforced them with some metal tubing of some kind. Also they had loose motor mounts. Otherwise they looked great to me.
VP
I am considering buying an Ascent 450. At my club 2 guys have them, here is what they found: The control rods flex when they are pushing the linkages, they told me left turns and down are affected by this. They reinforced them with some metal tubing of some kind. Also they had loose motor mounts. Otherwise they looked great to me.
VP
06-29-2010, 12:12 AM
#33
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 123
I have a 450 that I fly almost every time out. So far this "one" has been great. If you have flown a bigger glider this one responds faster to inputs and needs bigger thermals to keep it up. BUT once you find one that does provide the lift it can spec out fast.
I have never had any problems with the linkage on the new 450 model that I have had but these are hand build so they very from plane to plane. My first 450 had a bad vibration and thru a prop, Eflite sent a new motor and prop and it lasted about 10 seconds on a bench test. They have some problems with there props. Two in a row is a problem. Eflite made it right with a complete new plane, but I went with a good prop. Recommend that if you buy one consider a good name brand new prop blades as part of the price of the plane.
So after all the problems that I had at first this is my favorite glider, I can take it most places to fly and it does fly great.
I have never had any problems with the linkage on the new 450 model that I have had but these are hand build so they very from plane to plane. My first 450 had a bad vibration and thru a prop, Eflite sent a new motor and prop and it lasted about 10 seconds on a bench test. They have some problems with there props. Two in a row is a problem. Eflite made it right with a complete new plane, but I went with a good prop. Recommend that if you buy one consider a good name brand new prop blades as part of the price of the plane.
So after all the problems that I had at first this is my favorite glider, I can take it most places to fly and it does fly great.
06-29-2010, 12:34 AM
#34
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Originally Posted by Old Tin Man
I have a 450 that I fly almost every time out. So far this "one" has been great. If you have flown a bigger glider this one responds faster to inputs and needs bigger thermals to keep it up. BUT once you find one that does provide the lift it can spec out fast.
I have never had any problems with the linkage on the new 450 model that I have had but these are hand build so they very from plane to plane. My first 450 had a bad vibration and thru a prop, Eflite sent a new motor and prop and it lasted about 10 seconds on a bench test. They have some problems with there props. Two in a row is a problem. Eflite made it right with a complete new plane, but I went with a good prop. Recommend that if you buy one consider a good name brand new prop blades as part of the price of the plane.
So after all the problems that I had at first this is my favorite glider, I can take it most places to fly and it does fly great.
I have never had any problems with the linkage on the new 450 model that I have had but these are hand build so they very from plane to plane. My first 450 had a bad vibration and thru a prop, Eflite sent a new motor and prop and it lasted about 10 seconds on a bench test. They have some problems with there props. Two in a row is a problem. Eflite made it right with a complete new plane, but I went with a good prop. Recommend that if you buy one consider a good name brand new prop blades as part of the price of the plane.
So after all the problems that I had at first this is my favorite glider, I can take it most places to fly and it does fly great.
VP
06-29-2010, 12:12 PM
#35
Super Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sterling, Illinois
Posts: 1,707
I have this one its a very pretty glider, but ran into the Radian and is absolutely no comparison for lift, if you want plenty of thermal fun which is what sailplanes are all about, the Radian wins hands down....my Ascent is collecting dust, simply lacks performance for a sailplane, but still nice. There is a huge difference..<>.. The Radian was designed by a group of seasoned sailplane pilots and they came up with a beauty... BEST
07-10-2010, 04:31 PM
#36
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Hi
I am putting together my Ascent and I have noticed something. The 2 dowels that locate the wings are off center a bit, it tends to angle the wing to the left looking from behind. Any one else notice this?
VP
I am putting together my Ascent and I have noticed something. The 2 dowels that locate the wings are off center a bit, it tends to angle the wing to the left looking from behind. Any one else notice this?
VP
07-10-2010, 08:41 PM
#37
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Apparently this is intentional to counteract the torque of the motor, I asked Horizons Product Support and they confirmed this. also I see the pictures on Horizons Website show it offcenter also. I was wondering how sensitive an AR6200 Rx is to heat, I have it mounted next to the ESC and I noticed the fuselage gets quite warm while I was bench testing it. I also wondered about the brake in the motor for the prop to fold back. If I cut the throttle the prop does stop spinning but it doesnt seem to "brake" I was wondering what is the normal operation of this brake. I managed to fit the 2 Rx's of the AR6200 in there alright, I have the satellite Rx in the back part of the Fuselage, I am going to dab a bit of silicone under it to secure it. I just have to glue the tail feathers on and she will be done.
VP
VP
07-10-2010, 08:49 PM
#38
Community Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,871
Typically the brake will stop the prop. Air flow is what pushes the prop back, so on the bench the prop likely will not fold.
Many brushless motors have a "notchy" kind of feel which is enough to stop the motor even if the brake is not set. But in the air the prop will continue to turn, overcoming this characteristic. Be sure to bring your ESC instructions to the field with you to be sure you can set that brake if it is not properly set.
Many brushless motors have a "notchy" kind of feel which is enough to stop the motor even if the brake is not set. But in the air the prop will continue to turn, overcoming this characteristic. Be sure to bring your ESC instructions to the field with you to be sure you can set that brake if it is not properly set.
07-10-2010, 10:52 PM
#40
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Originally Posted by AEAJR
Typically the brake will stop the prop. Air flow is what pushes the prop back, so on the bench the prop likely will not fold.
Many brushless motors have a "notchy" kind of feel which is enough to stop the motor even if the brake is not set. But in the air the prop will continue to turn, overcoming this characteristic. Be sure to bring your ESC instructions to the field with you to be sure you can set that brake if it is not properly set.
Many brushless motors have a "notchy" kind of feel which is enough to stop the motor even if the brake is not set. But in the air the prop will continue to turn, overcoming this characteristic. Be sure to bring your ESC instructions to the field with you to be sure you can set that brake if it is not properly set.
VP
07-11-2010, 02:39 AM
#41
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by Victory Pete
Hi
I am putting together my Ascent and I have noticed something. The 2 dowels that locate the wings are off center a bit, it tends to angle the wing to the left looking from behind. Any one else notice this?
VP
I am putting together my Ascent and I have noticed something. The 2 dowels that locate the wings are off center a bit, it tends to angle the wing to the left looking from behind. Any one else notice this?
VP
The break should stop the prop. Do you have the both the sub trim and the trims on the face of the TX set at 0? Both need to be set at 0 or less. You can test the break by spinning the prop without the battery installed and feel the amount of resistance then install the battery and power up the system setting the throttle at 0. You should feel a small change in resistance when the system has power. The motor uses a small amount of current to resist the prop movement in flight. Hope that helps.
07-11-2010, 10:15 AM
#42
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Originally Posted by Old Tin Man
The dowels are offset approx 3 mm to the left of centerline, one is at 15 mm and the other at 12 mm from centerline to the outside of the dowel pin.
The break should stop the prop. Do you have the both the sub trim and the trims on the face of the TX set at 0? Both need to be set at 0 or less. You can test the break by spinning the prop without the battery installed and feel the amount of resistance then install the battery and power up the system setting the throttle at 0. You should feel a small change in resistance when the system has power. The motor uses a small amount of current to resist the prop movement in flight. Hope that helps.
The break should stop the prop. Do you have the both the sub trim and the trims on the face of the TX set at 0? Both need to be set at 0 or less. You can test the break by spinning the prop without the battery installed and feel the amount of resistance then install the battery and power up the system setting the throttle at 0. You should feel a small change in resistance when the system has power. The motor uses a small amount of current to resist the prop movement in flight. Hope that helps.
VP
07-11-2010, 08:10 PM
#43
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 123
I consider zero trim with the buttons in the center of the travel. Just wondering if your ESC is seeing a little throttle and thinking that you don't want brake yet.
If you are having any trouble with anything on your plane I would call Horizon Hobbies back. I have had little trouble getting them to make it right. But there was one time that I did have to beat them regularly over a week before they saw the problem. don't think you will have that problem. In the end I don't think that there is a better hobby company for product support and over all products.
Hi, I have had 3 - 450 Ascents still have 3 sets of wings and 2 fuses. none of them have the wings angled. They should be dead on.
Just the dowels are offset to the left of centerline. Here are two photos that show they are 3 mm different and all the wings I have are the same. Can you post a photo of the problem? Maybe I am all screwed up!
If you are having any trouble with anything on your plane I would call Horizon Hobbies back. I have had little trouble getting them to make it right. But there was one time that I did have to beat them regularly over a week before they saw the problem. don't think you will have that problem. In the end I don't think that there is a better hobby company for product support and over all products.
Hi, I have had 3 - 450 Ascents still have 3 sets of wings and 2 fuses. none of them have the wings angled. They should be dead on.
Just the dowels are offset to the left of centerline. Here are two photos that show they are 3 mm different and all the wings I have are the same. Can you post a photo of the problem? Maybe I am all screwed up!
07-11-2010, 09:41 PM
#44
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Hi
I did the test with the battery on and off. With the battery on If I spin the prop it does have some resistance and will stop quickly. With out the battery it will spin a couple of times. I guess it is working, it is a subtle effect. I suppose it is suppose to be as to not waste battery energy. Once it folds it probably stays folded and doesnt want to turn. Well my Ascent is completely assembled. It was tricky gluing the tail together and getting it to be aligned properly. I have a hard time throwing it to do the "glide test" It seems so fragile. How much damage do these gliders sustain with doing belly flop landings? Here is a link to Horizons picture of the Ascent, sure enough the wing is angled to the left, just like they said. http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...FL2700&Index=1
VP
I did the test with the battery on and off. With the battery on If I spin the prop it does have some resistance and will stop quickly. With out the battery it will spin a couple of times. I guess it is working, it is a subtle effect. I suppose it is suppose to be as to not waste battery energy. Once it folds it probably stays folded and doesnt want to turn. Well my Ascent is completely assembled. It was tricky gluing the tail together and getting it to be aligned properly. I have a hard time throwing it to do the "glide test" It seems so fragile. How much damage do these gliders sustain with doing belly flop landings? Here is a link to Horizons picture of the Ascent, sure enough the wing is angled to the left, just like they said. http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...FL2700&Index=1
VP
07-19-2010, 12:12 AM
#45
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Propeller failure on maiden launch
Hi All
I have a new Ascent that I hand launched for the first time this morning. Bad news, prop broke when I advanced the throttle and the resulting imbalance tore out the motor and firewall. I tried to land but the CG was out because the motor and prop assebly was dangling out the front, so it landed hard nose first in the turf. The G force damaged the wings. I am a bit dissapointed and discouraged, I had heard reports of these propellers breaking alot but this was a virgin plane. I called Horizon Product Support and I have to send in the Ascent for evaluation. I am not even sure I want another one now if these propellers fail even when they are brand new. As I was putting my damaged Ascent away a club member with another Ascent which was not new, had the same exact thing happen. I dont know that planes history but I know mine was certainly a factory defect.
VP
I have a new Ascent that I hand launched for the first time this morning. Bad news, prop broke when I advanced the throttle and the resulting imbalance tore out the motor and firewall. I tried to land but the CG was out because the motor and prop assebly was dangling out the front, so it landed hard nose first in the turf. The G force damaged the wings. I am a bit dissapointed and discouraged, I had heard reports of these propellers breaking alot but this was a virgin plane. I called Horizon Product Support and I have to send in the Ascent for evaluation. I am not even sure I want another one now if these propellers fail even when they are brand new. As I was putting my damaged Ascent away a club member with another Ascent which was not new, had the same exact thing happen. I dont know that planes history but I know mine was certainly a factory defect.
VP
Last edited by Victory Pete; 07-24-2010 at 06:54 PM.
07-30-2010, 04:01 PM
#46
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2
broken prop
Originally Posted by Victory Pete
Hi All
I have a new Ascent that I hand launched for the first time this morning. Bad news, prop broke when I advanced the throttle and the resulting imbalance tore out the motor and firewall. I tried to land but the CG was out because the motor and prop assebly was dangling out the front, so it landed hard nose first in the turf. The G force damaged the wings. I am a bit dissapointed and discouraged, I had heard reports of these propellers breaking alot but this was a virgin plane. I called Horizon Product Support and I have to send in the Ascent for evaluation. I am not even sure I want another one now if these propellers fail even when they are brand new. As I was putting my damaged Ascent away a club member with another Ascent which was not new, had the same exact thing happen. I dont know that planes history but I know mine was certainly a factory defect.
VP
I have a new Ascent that I hand launched for the first time this morning. Bad news, prop broke when I advanced the throttle and the resulting imbalance tore out the motor and firewall. I tried to land but the CG was out because the motor and prop assebly was dangling out the front, so it landed hard nose first in the turf. The G force damaged the wings. I am a bit dissapointed and discouraged, I had heard reports of these propellers breaking alot but this was a virgin plane. I called Horizon Product Support and I have to send in the Ascent for evaluation. I am not even sure I want another one now if these propellers fail even when they are brand new. As I was putting my damaged Ascent away a club member with another Ascent which was not new, had the same exact thing happen. I dont know that planes history but I know mine was certainly a factory defect.
VP
Horizon have hopefully got the message as they didn't quibble with me at all, sent a new plane within 36 hours to my door. Great customer service but they have a problem.
I am going to replace the prop - any advice from anyone on the best replacement? Flew really well up till then got one 45 minute flight with decent thermals.
07-30-2010, 04:21 PM
#47
WWI Flying Ace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rhode Island USA
Posts: 340
Originally Posted by Edward953
Exactly the same happened to mine. About two hours flying time then prop snapped motor torn out, tough landing ...
Horizon have hopefully got the message as they didn't quibble with me at all, sent a new plane within 36 hours to my door. Great customer service but they have a problem.
I am going to replace the prop - any advice from anyone on the best replacement? Flew really well up till then got one 45 minute flight with decent thermals.
Horizon have hopefully got the message as they didn't quibble with me at all, sent a new plane within 36 hours to my door. Great customer service but they have a problem.
I am going to replace the prop - any advice from anyone on the best replacement? Flew really well up till then got one 45 minute flight with decent thermals.
Did you have to send them the plane for evaluation?
VP
07-30-2010, 04:24 PM
#48
Super Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DeLand, FL
Posts: 1,883
This is a known problem and Parkzone fixed their problem with a new prop, same part number but ending with "-1." I don't know whether this would transfer to Eflight, but both companies, being subsidiaries of Horizon Hobbies, probably share the same parts and problems. Whether you got the updated prop or not would depend on the manufacturing date of your plane. When I received my Radian, they told me to check the prop and they'd mail me a free -1 prop if I needed it. I didn't and my plane was purchased in March. Keep us posted on what Horizon does. They know there's a problem with their old folding propellers and should make it right. All they want to find out is that it didn't break from impact with a large immovable object, like a car, tree or planet earth. Your photos make it clear that didn't happen.
07-30-2010, 05:40 PM
#49
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2
broken prop
Luckily the local distributor is 10 miles up the road from where I live. Drove up there the day after with just the fuselage. Got there before the office opened. They took one look, said thanks, give us your name and address and that was it. next afternoon UPS with new plane at the front door.
