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-   -   How Do I Mount My Outrunner Motor ? (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39483)

CHELLIE 09-29-2008 01:55 AM

How Do I Mount My Outrunner Motor ?
 
Hi Everyone :ws: This Question comes up a Lot, Soooo I am going to post some pictures, to give modelers some Ideas, I know I have had to learn the different ways to mount a Outrunner, so it will fit a certain Plane, due to size of the cowel, firewall placement, etc, so here are some pics, and Please feel free to add your own pics of a motor install, so it might help others with their build, Take care, Chellie

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...unt-for/Detail

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/...268919d737.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3275/...e4f8313cbb.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...L8YKyFHF2aQKKs

CHELLIE 09-29-2008 02:06 AM

and some more motor mounts

http://2dogrc.com/ecommerce/os/catal...jpg&w=125&h=86http://2dogrc.com/ecommerce/os/catal...pg&w=125&h=105http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...es/sk055mm.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...less-motor.jpg

CHELLIE 09-29-2008 02:10 AM

and some more :)

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...69-motor-2.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...les/HC2812.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...%2520mount.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...imfire_175.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...otorMount2.jpg

CHELLIE 09-29-2008 02:16 AM

some more mounts

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:..._Z40_MNTSm.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:.../a60_mount.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...les/hc35-2.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...t_Modified.jpg

CHELLIE 09-29-2008 02:18 AM

I hope this gives the new pilot / builder a little more of an Idea whats available to them, as far as motor mounts go, also some of these mounts will fit inrunners too :) Take care, Chellie

EDFrules 09-29-2008 04:33 AM

8 Attachment(s)
Here's some more of my motor mounts and a lovely work of laser art from Germany for the EF Yak 47":

drewpyfz6 09-29-2008 07:38 AM


Originally Posted by CHELLIE (Post 482541)
I hope this gives the new pilot / builder a little more of an Idea whats available to them, as far as motor mounts go, also some of these mounts will fit inrunners too :) Take care, Chellie

Hi Chellie,
Thats was very helpful, I had no idea there were so many variations available.

Cheers,
Drew

CHELLIE 09-29-2008 03:03 PM

Thank you EDFrules :ws: for posting some great motor mount Ideas, it will certainly help others with their builds, Take care, Chellie


Hi Drew :ws: I struggled to learn how to mount some of my motors, the out runners were the most difficult, it took me a while to learn the different ways a outrunner motor could be mounted, and I still dont know them all :D this thread with the help from others, will help us all to gain more knowlage, Take care, Chellie

EDFrules 09-29-2008 04:44 PM

You bet Chellie. With mounting motors, there's always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat. Given the popularity of outrunners, there are many methods to make sure your motor stays where it should. I was unsure how to hang 700 watts on a foamie but some ply and epoxy kept it where it was supposed to be. Imperical testing doesn't always work but that's how we learn. Good luck and keep 'em flyin'!
Regards,
Jason
[quote=CHELLIE;482686]Thank you EDFrules :ws: for posting some great motor mount Ideas, it will certainly help others with their builds, Take care, Chellie

pd1 09-29-2008 05:01 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Here's a couple.

drewpyfz6 09-29-2008 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by EDFrules (Post 482722)
You bet Chellie. With mounting motors, there's always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat. Given the popularity of outrunners, there are many methods to make sure your motor stays where it should. I was unsure how to hang 700 watts on a foamie but some ply and epoxy kept it where it was supposed to be. Imperical testing doesn't always work but that's how we learn. Good luck and keep 'em flyin'!
Regards,
Jason

Thanks Jason, (forgot to say before - :red:), there certainly are plenty of ways...
Just need to find the right one for the right project.

CHELLIE 09-29-2008 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by EDFrules (Post 482597)
Here's some more of my motor mounts and a lovely work of laser art from Germany for the EF Yak 47":

got to love those CNC motor mounts :)


Originally Posted by pd1 (Post 482735)
Here's a couple.

Thank You Paul for the pics, got to love those Towerpro motors, They do the Job well, and they taught me alot :D Take care, Chellie

EDFrules 09-30-2008 03:47 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yeah that's some beauty stuff-eh? My carbon mounts don't have that finished look(yet).

Originally Posted by CHELLIE (Post 482748)
got to love those CNC motor mounts :)




CHELLIE 09-30-2008 04:29 AM


Originally Posted by EDFrules (Post 483042)
Yeah that's some beauty stuff-eh? My carbon mounts don't have that finished look(yet).

Nice plane :ws: is that scratch built ???? I love those holes in the Foam to make it lite :$ ;-)

EDFrules 09-30-2008 01:49 PM

Thanks Chellie. That's my Bipe-X design. 1st 3D bipe design and wanted to lighten it up as much as possible since bipes aren't known to be the lightest. Milled out all control surfaces too. Have done 2 more versions. V1.2 seems to be the best overall at 3D/pattern. I've got a company evaluating an airframe now and hopefully in the near future we should see it on the market. I'll let everyone else make the next best Ultimate and Pitts for 3D. I decided not to try and work out the bad tendencies of most bipes and start from a blank sheet of paper. Since it seems to fly well I'm working on a full fuse/wing 42" version now and will scale up to 80" if that performs well. Going to be fun. Didn't really like bipes but this has changed my mind. Also working on an AMA pattern bipe for a friend. No one makes a bipe for the lower classes(non FAI/F3A) manuevers. So this is an attempt to make a more point and shoot bipe. Here's the Bipe-X thread:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31764
Here's a couple of vids, one of each version:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEuXcGRXgKY[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfUG9Lemiko[/media]

Jason

Angler-Hi 09-30-2008 02:02 PM

Jason, AWESOME videos friend. Where in Florida are you? I'm from Jacksonville.

Mike

EDFrules 09-30-2008 05:17 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks Mike. That's my friend Blake Hilson on the sticks. He knows how to get the most out of an airframe for sure. We live in Clermont right outside of the Disney area. That's his backyard with the lake we fly over a lot. He also flies @RCACF field in Apopka(Orlando area). Here's a couple more vids of V1.0 if you liked the others:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHTAsz2meKU[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj0luH4rJm0[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ApdM5_3Uw4[/media]
In keeping with the context of this thread, they all use a simple motor mount setup. Just 1/8" ply(or 1/16" carbon plate) CA'd to depron(with doublers @ firewall) and some balsa corner stock on the 4 quadrants. Then just drill thru ply and corner stock and mount motor with some RTL socket head fasteners. Lite and haven't had one fail yet and you can see the planes get wailed on. :Q

Angler-Hi 09-30-2008 10:48 PM

Excellent videos friend! I like your little collection there. I think those things are so sweet.

EDFrules 10-01-2008 12:40 AM

That's just a few of them. Got some more full fuse versions and some smaller ones too. The Cliks do their precision/3D thing too. That's what started my obsession with this type plane in the first place(at least that's what my wife calls it). Should be making some 6-12s sized full up versions this year=going to be big fun! Obviously have to have some serious motor mounts for that kind of power. No lite ply!

FL Knifemaker 10-02-2008 08:00 PM

"Clean Foamie Mount"
 
6 Attachment(s)
I really wanted to keep my Funder & Lightning as "clean" as possible as far as construction. I'm using carbon arrow shafts for the booms and decided I'd use the same material to make my motor mount anchor. I really wanted to stay away from using plywood or some boxy looking motor mount. What I came up with is strong, light and very minimalistic. I should have taken a picture of the mount before I installed it on the plane. I'll photograph the next one Just picture a piece of 5/16" dia. CF tubing running from the back of the motor mount, through the nose, all the way to where the slot for the wing is in the fusilage. It's held in place with Gorilla Glue. It's STRONG. I considered making carbon fiber reinforcement panels for the sides of the nose but they aren't needed at all.



The mount itself is made from carbon fiber and silver G10, the materal used on some Heli frames and Rock Crawers. Rock Crawer fans will notice the Axial green aluminum standoff material, I used for the spacers. I wanted air to be able to THROUGH the motor as intended and I needed to space the mount away from the collar on the rear of the motor. In doing that I kept the overall length as short as possible.



On the next one, I'll make a 3 screw version to save weight, I'm sure it will be strong enough and lighter with one less screw and less material. Now I have to make a nice prop nut/spinner!

EDFrules 10-02-2008 08:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Nice looking mount there.:) Thanks for reminding me of my other indoor Clik mount. Simple as it gets-a piece of carbon arrow shaft for a MicroDan 2003 F3A motor. Motor gets friction fit in nice and tight and with a couple of drops of CA it's there to stay. No hardware needed. Perfect for those less than 4oz. foamies. Where are you located in Central Fl? I'm in Clermont.

Destroyer of airplanes 10-02-2008 09:14 PM

Here is my mounting solution
 
Here is how I mount all my motors. I have used it from e-flite 450 up to Power. 60. Here is a link to my P-39 thread.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37143

Hope this helps


Paul

CHELLIE 10-02-2008 09:22 PM

Thank you Paul for listing that motor mount, it looks very nice, and adjustable too, I like it :) Take care, Chellie




<FIELDSET class=fieldset><LEGEND>Attached Thumbnails</LEGEND>http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/atta...1&d=1216680742
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/atta...1&d=1216680742
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/atta...1&d=1216680742
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/atta...1&d=1216680742




</FIELDSET>Pauls Motor Mount nice job :)

CHELLIE 10-02-2008 09:26 PM

Thank You FL Knifemaker and EDFrules for listing your Motor Mounts, Take care, Chellie

Conveluted condor 10-10-2008 04:32 PM

Do you need a offset angle for torque on outrunners like you do with nitro motors? I'm retro fitting my GP super sportster with a Himaxx out runnerIt came with the mount but I had to build a stand off box to get the shaft to the end of the cowl. I don't know about if offset is reqired or not before I afix it to the fire wall. Help!

tom1968 10-10-2008 04:58 PM

Yes, right/down thrust works the same way with electric power as with nitro or gas.

Conveluted condor 10-10-2008 05:23 PM

Whats the formula /rule of thumb to acheive proper offset? I don't believe it's built in to the firewall on this arf.

Dr Kiwi 10-10-2008 06:02 PM

I dragged out some high school math from the '60's and found that for a 50mm wide firewall or motor mount plate, to get 3 degrees right offset, the left side needs to be ~2.6mm forward of the right. Obviously, for downthrust, the top edge needs to be ~2.6mm ahead of the bottom edge.

50mm*sin 3 = 50mm*0.052 = 2.62mm

Conveluted condor 10-10-2008 06:10 PM

So 3 degrees is the magic number? Regardless of motor torque? Thats it? I feel silly. I've built a number of kits and they all have the offset pre arranged when the fire wall is installed. Now I know. Thank you. Hopefully I can get this hot rod in the air before the snow flys and I have to mount ski's. lol

Dr Kiwi 10-10-2008 09:05 PM

I don't know if 3 degrees is "the gold standard" but it is a number I've often seen mentioned.

CHELLIE 10-10-2008 09:53 PM


Originally Posted by Conveluted condor (Post 488228)
Do you need a offset angle for torque on outrunners like you do with nitro motors? I'm retro fitting my GP super sportster with a Himaxx out runnerIt came with the mount but I had to build a stand off box to get the shaft to the end of the cowl. I don't know about if offset is reqired or not before I afix it to the fire wall. Help!

Hi, The General Rule of Thumb with Electrics, is to use the same down thrust and right thrust that the MFG. recomends for a Nitro plane, and fine tune from there, Hope that helps, Chellie

celticflyer 10-27-2008 01:22 AM

YES

CHELLIE 12-05-2008 01:17 AM

Here is a little info on the bell motors, to help to keep them from spinning in the motor mount, and breaking the wires, hope that helps, Chellie

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...lectric/Detail

MOUNTING OPTIONS: A firewall mount and aluminum stick mount with heat sink are included, along with two prop nuts and a washer. Always check the tightness of all motor set screws and motor mount screws when installing motors. The motor set screws require a 1.5mm Allen wrench.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1251/...0c495383a5.jpg
Some experienced flyers who post on the 'Wattflyer' forums suggest using a little 'JB Weld for metal' to secure the aluminum stick mount to the motor tube. This prevents it from working loose and spinning in the mount. Be very careful not to get any on the shaft and bearing though

Ellis1 12-05-2008 02:25 AM

Here's my HZ Super Cub Mount
 
3 Attachment(s)
Here's a simple mount using plywood and SS bolts and nuts. The thrust angle is infinitely adjustable.

Ellis

CHELLIE 12-05-2008 03:21 AM


Originally Posted by Ellis1 (Post 517064)
Here's a simple mount using plywood and SS bolts and nuts. The thrust angle is infinitely adjustable.

Ellis

Great Idea Ellis :ws: Thank you for adding to the Thread, Take care, Chellie

Kraft71 12-11-2008 04:26 AM

I'm new to electrics myself, but I don't think the type of motor (glow or elec.) would influence whether or not you need an offset. I think that would be a function of the airframe design, since the P effect is what makes offset necessary in the first place. Some airframe designs are more sensitive to offset than others, with tail draggers being the worst in my experience. I am putting a degree or two in the Cessna Cardinal I'm outfitting now. It's my first electric attempt, so we shall see how successful I am.

Merry Christmas!

Gale.

CHELLIE 12-11-2008 04:29 AM


Originally Posted by Kraft71 (Post 521183)
I'm new to electrics myself, but I don't think the type of motor (glow or elec.) would influence whether or not you need an offset. I think that would be a function of the airframe design, since the P effect is what makes offset necessary in the first place. Some airframe designs are more sensitive to offset than others, with tail draggers being the worst in my experience. I am putting a degree or two in the Cessna Cardinal I'm outfitting now. It's my first electric attempt, so we shall see how successful I am.

Merry Christmas!

Gale.

Hi Gale :ws: what type of motor, esc, prop and lipo are you using on your cessna cardinal, Inquiring minds would like to know :D ;-) take care, Chellie

Kraft71 12-12-2008 06:29 PM

1 Attachment(s)
At this point, I am using an Emax CF2812 purchased from "HongKongFluie" on Ebay. Got an APC 7x5 electric prop and a couple of 11.1Volt, 2000MAH lipos to begin with, and an assortment of ESCs also acquired cheaply from Ebay Hong Kong providers. So far I have been lucky, and all of the vendors shipped promptly and the merchandise has been just as advertised. I am sure I will eventually get burned. Just won a nice Castle Phoenix 25 though, so may use that. Also bought a "Watts UP" wattmeter on the Bay and when it gets here, I will attempt to determine the best set up. LIke I say, I'm new to all this electric stuff, so have bunch to learn. The airframe is a Midwest Cessna Foam Cardinal I have had since the 1970s. ( 46" span, 290 sq. in. and 23-35 oz. ) Designed for .049 to .15 glow. These haven't been made in years, but they were among the very early original ARFs. Bought two, and used the original with a Kraft brick 3 channel with an OS 15 up front. Flew it on small fields and "schoolyards" for years. Still have the wing! With a .15, it was a strong performer. Added a hardwood spar to the wing for extra strength. Since I still have it, it must have worked, huh?

Fashioned a motor mount out of 1/8 lite ply, and got it installed last night. Still have to paint the moulded foam airframe, and install the radio. (Spektrum 7 probably, using full 4 channels )

I have downloaded a software program called "Motorcalc" I am sure all are familiar with except me. Mentioned it to the Electric guys at my local hobby shop (Graves RC) yesterday though, and they seemed to doubt it's accuracy. Anybody got an opinion? (Before I pay for it!)

Will update.

Here's the first Cardinal with the OS .15.

CHELLIE 12-13-2008 05:09 AM


Originally Posted by Kraft71 (Post 522209)
At this point, I am using an Emax CF2812 purchased from "HongKongFluie" on Ebay. Got an APC 7x5 electric prop and a couple of 11.1Volt, 2000MAH lipos to begin with, and an assortment of ESCs also acquired cheaply from Ebay Hong Kong providers. So far I have been lucky, and all of the vendors shipped promptly and the merchandise has been just as advertised. I am sure I will eventually get burned. Just won a nice Castle Phoenix 25 though, so may use that. Also bought a "Watts UP" wattmeter on the Bay and when it gets here, I will attempt to determine the best set up. LIke I say, I'm new to all this electric stuff, so have bunch to learn. The airframe is a Midwest Cessna Foam Cardinal I have had since the 1970s. ( 46" span, 290 sq. in. and 23-35 oz. ) Designed for .049 to .15 glow. These haven't been made in years, but they were among the very early original ARFs. Bought two, and used the original with a Kraft brick 3 channel with an OS 15 up front. Flew it on small fields and "schoolyards" for years. Still have the wing! With a .15, it was a strong performer. Added a hardwood spar to the wing for extra strength. Since I still have it, it must have worked, huh?

Fashioned a motor mount out of 1/8 lite ply, and got it installed last night. Still have to paint the moulded foam airframe, and install the radio. (Spektrum 7 probably, using full 4 channels )

I have downloaded a software program called "Motorcalc" I am sure all are familiar with except me. Mentioned it to the Electric guys at my local hobby shop (Graves RC) yesterday though, and they seemed to doubt it's accuracy. Anybody got an opinion? (Before I pay for it!)

Will update.

Here's the first Cardinal with the OS .15.

Hi Kraft. the cf2812 is a nice little motor, but it wont be enough power for your Plane, may i suggest using this motor, and a 40 amp esc, this ESC has a 3 amp bec that will carry the electrical load of 4 servos, it will give you all the power you need, hope that helps, Chellie


http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...r_(Eq_AXi_2808

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...eed_Controller




Input Voltage : 7.4V~11.1V (2~3S Li-po)
KV : 1400 rpm/V within 10%
Nb. of turns :22 Delta
Max. efficiency current : 10~15A
Current capacity : 22A/60s
Internal Resistance : 76 mohm
No Load current @ 7V: 1.19A
Dimensions : 35mm X 30mm / 1.38in X 1.18in
Shaft diameter : 4mm / 0.16in
Weight : 77g / 2.72oz
Number of poles/magnets : 14
Recommended model weight : 600~1300g / 21~45oz
Power equivalent : .12,2stroke


<TABLE width=520><TBODY><TR><TD>HXT 35-30-B 1400kv http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...ges/5stars.gif
Tony McMichael

</TD></TR><TR><TD>I tested this motor in a 650gr. built-up cessna with a W.S. 41" with a HXT D9 2200ma 3 cell LiPo. First prop which motor recomends 8-6, I used a APC E prop-

W.O.T. readings
start volts= 12.2
Amps= 30.9
V. drop= 10.8
Watts= 345.8
RMP= 10,822

50% throttle readings
start Volts= 12.2
Amps= 11.5
V. drop= 11.5
watts= 134
RPM= 8200

Next I tried a APC 8-4 E prop

W.O.T. readings
start Volts= 12.4
Amps= 21
V. drop= 11.1
watts= 246.5
RPM= 12,831

50% throttle readings
start volts= 12.4
Amps= 9.7
V. drop= 11.6
Watts= 112
RPM= 9,966

The paper work that came with motor claims 340 watts and can take 30amps, and they DID meet there goal.
I have 2 of these motors and this is an excellant motor with a excellant price and would recomend it to every one!
Awesome batteries also I might add!!!
Thanks again UH!!

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Kraft71 12-13-2008 10:40 PM

Hey Chellie.
Thanks for the good advice. I'm livin' and learnin'. I have a Mystery Pentium 40 Amp controller also and these other two motors:Mystery 3632-3500 and a KA22-20L Kv1050. Any chance of using this set up, since I already have it? I have just been accumulating a little gear, not really knowing what applications it would be suitable for. Appreciate your opinions. Thanks.

Krafty


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