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-   WWI Era (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70)
-   -   WWI planes (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259)

Tucson Don 01-22-2008 04:06 PM

Knock off landing gear
 
It seems to me that a wire landing gear mounted on a plywood base and
held in place with velcro would save a big repair job after a "bad landing".
Has anyone done this? I am a beleiver in parts that soak up shocks
and do not destroy the main units. For example use rubber bands to hold
on the wing--never use screws, unless you fly like a pro.

Cookie 01-22-2008 05:18 PM

Don, I agree on certain points but disagree on others. Shock absorbing landing gear would look good and work, but you have to keep it attached to the fuselage. If you set it up so that the landing gear comes off on a "bad" landing, you're going to tear up the bottom of the fuselage and who knows what the landing gear is going to tear or poke into as the fuselage grinds over it. Better to install some kind of shock absorbing feature at the axles and wheels. Rubber banded wings look "funky" especially on a scale or semi-scale plane and they hold the wing on so tight that they're not going to "give" if you come in on a wing tip or cartwheel. I've done both methods (rubber banded wing mount and screw down mount) and with the rubber bands, you're constantly having to make sure that the wing in mounted in the correct position before applying the final rubber bands. With a screw mount, you line everything up and make sure the wing is mounted correctly while building the plane then you set the screw mount up. From that point on, the wing is going to mount in the same place every time. If you rip the wing out during a "bad" landing or crash, it's not that difficult to replace the piece of plywood that holds the wing on.

Tucson Don 01-22-2008 05:49 PM

Knock off parts
 
Cookie,
Your comments are valid for the kind of models and sort of flying that
you probably do.....heavier models on a runway at a club field.
I fly mostly foam scratchbuilts at a park with grass surface.
They are not large models and not a lot of work to make. The rubber band
wing mounting is practical, but ugly. At a hundred feet distance, no body
sees the ugly--just a nice flying model. As an old man, I don't want to
waste time and will sacrifice beauty for practicality.
Thank you for your comments. You are correct.
Don

Cookie 01-22-2008 06:07 PM

Don, I understand completely. I like to fly the little Harbor Freight bipes at the local park on the grass. Our "flying field" is sanctioned be AMA but it's a dirt and rock runway (yuck), so sometimes I prefer to fly at the park with the nice cushioned green grass. From the looks of that biplane in the little picture below your name, it looks like you've done some pretty good looking building.

degreen60 01-22-2008 06:28 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Tucson Don (Post 342464)
It seems to me that a wire landing gear mounted on a plywood base and
held in place with velcro would save a big repair job after a "bad landing".

I tried this on my foam Sopwith tripe. Seemed no matter how soft I landed(in grass) the landing gear would come loose and tear chuncks of foam out of the fuselage. The plane weights 15oz.

Here is what is keeping me busy on these cold windy days.

cropduster 01-22-2008 09:45 PM

Don,

From one "old man" to another, WW-1 planes are inherently hard to land. They are prone to "nose over" when the wheels touch the ground. This is the price one pays to fly WW-1 planes. I have a number of these and when one does land well I'm all smiles. I use a nylon 4-40 screw to hold my bottom wings in place. Mostly the screw shears. Land into the wind with these machines with some power on and your landings will improve.

Ken

Cookie 01-22-2008 11:08 PM

Yah, my Grandson gets a kick out of it when one of my Biplanes flips over on landing. He has to report the "mishap" to his Dad, my Son, who then also gets a laugh out of it. Moving the landing gear forward to at least the leading edge of the bottom wing, helps to prevent it from flipping onto it's nose on landing. My little Harbor freight bipes are going to flip no matter how well you land it on grass.

scalercflyer 01-22-2008 11:45 PM

A trick
 
Here's a little trick I use when it comes to using nylon bolts. No matter which size you use the technique is the same. I take a drill bit and hold it along side of the nylon bolt. I generally go a little smaller than outside diameter of the bolt, leaving plenty of thread on the nylon bolt to bite the threaded hole in the body. Then I drill a hole down the center of the nylon bolt. This will allow the bolt (which is slightly weaker now) to shear in case of a bad landing and still have the ability to hold the wing(s) on. This prevents the plane from sustaining severe damage in some cases on those less than perfect landings. :) Even saves a tiny bit of weight! :D Martin

robinairerc 01-22-2008 11:52 PM

As another "ancient one" (82), I started modeling in 1936 (3rd grade) and during the 30s we often built models WITHOUT gear, and just let them nestle into the grass or weeds! You'd be surprised how minimal damage was. Of course, you would have to convince some people that WW1 planes had retracts!!! But if you are just having flying fun, who needs the gear!! Lee Robinson W. Palm Beach.

BUCKSHOT 01-22-2008 11:57 PM

Just Finished My First Bi Plane Today
Lanier Dvii,3530 14 250 Watts,30amp Esc, & "2" 3s 850 Mah 25/50 Lipo's

Can't Wait To Fly Her

cropduster 01-23-2008 12:16 AM


Originally Posted by scalercflyer (Post 342649)
Here's a little trick I use when it comes to using nylon bolts. No matter which size you use the technique is the same. I take a drill bit and hold it along side of the nylon bolt. I generally go a little smaller than outside diameter of the bolt, leaving plenty of thread on the nylon bolt to bite the threaded hole in the body. Then I drill a hole down the center of the nylon bolt. This will allow the bolt (which is slightly weaker now) to shear in case of a bad landing and still have the ability to hold the wing(s) on. This prevents the plane from sustaining severe damage in some cases on those less than perfect landings. :) Even saves a tiny bit of weight! :D Martin

All these years and I never gave that "trick" a thought. Will certainly do the screws...if I can find a drill bit.

Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory. Ken 100271:$

robinairerc 01-23-2008 01:30 AM

Suggestion: when looking for drill bits for the drilling, find a GOOD hardware that carries NUMBER drills. They have many very close steps in sizws, so that you can find the best drill for each bolt size. Get an inexpensive dial caliper, and using the very sharp tip, measure the minor dia. (bottom of threads) and select the drill closest to what you want. Lee

robinairerc 01-23-2008 01:36 AM

A suggestion: find a GOOD hardware store, and get a set of NUMBER drills. They hacve many close steps in sizes so that you can really get close on your hole size. Also, get an inszpensive dial caliper, and measure the minor dia. (bottom of thread) with the thin tip of the caliper. You can then home in on a good hole size for each bolt, since you can go just a few mils one way or the other to find a desired "break" point. Lee W. Palm Beach

scalercflyer 01-23-2008 01:36 AM

Many thanks
 
Many thanks Oh Ancient One for YOUR tip on my tip! :D I like your suggestion/explanation better than mine! :D Martin

robinairerc 01-23-2008 01:39 AM

GAD!! I thought I'd lost my first post, but now I have two! Sorry! And mine was intended to support your suggestion! Lee

scalercflyer 01-23-2008 01:41 AM

Drill bits
 
Speaking of drill bits Boys, I'm having a tough time finding good drill bits made in the USA. :( Seems like all of the vendors (Black and Decker, Sears, etc) are going to the cheap crappy ones made in China! :mad: I refuse to buy them! :mad: Any suggestions? Martin

robinairerc 01-23-2008 01:53 AM

Again, find a good hardware store, and check the prices. The good ones wil be almost double the cheapies! Also, maybe you can find a good industrial supply company in town. You can also try, on line, MSC Industrial Supply, from whom I get a lot of stuff, including drills, taps, lathe and milling cutters, and they carry 3 or 4 different price ranges, and IDENTIFY imports and American made. You can get a free, 2-volume catalog, but wear your girdle when you pick it up!!! email mscdirect.com or 1-800-645-7270. Lee

Cookie 01-23-2008 02:14 AM

Drilling the center section out of the nylon bolt is a great idea. I never thought of that. It would hold the wing on during flight but during a stress condition, it would shear off. Great idea.

Hedlro 01-23-2008 04:00 PM

New to everything!!
 
Hi Everyone,

I am very new (2 months) to RC Flight having bought a HobbyZone Piper Cub and taught myself. I liked the look of the Scale(ish) Piper Cub and love Bi-Planes so the next logical step...... build a scale WW1 Bi from scratch!!!:roll:.

Chickened out and bought a DB Sport and Scale Kit of the Sopwith Pup (the electric version obviously). 50% through the build and just about to start on the wings. Boy what a learning curve but loving every second of it, even when I glue both hands to the fuselage with CA (mental note: Pin together, don't hold together!):red:

Just hope it flies properly after all this effort.

Rob

Cookie 01-23-2008 06:10 PM

Rob, Welcome to the forum. So you're building a scale Sopwith Pup huh? Take your time and do a really good job on it. I'm sure that some of the others here will respond with advice. Just one bit of advice from me. Get in plenty of practice flying before attempting to fly any old World War 1 type biplane. Not trying to scare you away from biplanes, but they do fly differently from a single high wing, such as a Cub or Cessna 150. Difficult for me to describe in writing but they tend to "baloon" when taking off or climbing. Kind of like some unseen force reaches out and grabs it and suddenly lifts it into the air. You have to be prepared for it to do that so that you don't panic. Maybe some of the others here can give you a more descriptive example of how they fly. But don't give up. Once you get the hang of it, there's nothing more pleasing than a slow flying World War 1 biplane flying along at a nice slow scale speed.

scalercflyer 01-23-2008 06:49 PM

Amen
 
Amen to that Cookie! And WELCOME to the best thread on Wattflyer Rob! Just like Cookie said advice is just for the asking. Have fun, take your time and enjoy the build. There are many of us here that love building too. We will be anxiously awaiting the pics of the build. All the Best, Martin

degreen60 01-23-2008 08:14 PM

Welcome Rob. Now you know your going to have to find a way to paint something red on that Pup so you can drive Martin up the wall. Hey Martin did you notice I painted cowl red on my Morane Saulnier L? Did that just for you. HAHA

scalercflyer 01-23-2008 08:59 PM

Red
 
You're killing me! Martin

Hedlro 01-23-2008 09:46 PM

Wow
 
Hi Guys thanks for the welcome.

Nice flash of red down both sides could do it!!!!

Will post some pics of the build as is in a bit. One question, probably not the right place but, I am about to mount the brushless outrunner (Tornado Thumper 3536) to the firewall. Taking into account the down and right thrust, do i mount it so the propeller is central in the cowl (ie move the mount up and left on the firewall) or do I mount it so that the central line (the line of the shaft) of the motor starts from the central point of the firewall? I don't want to mess with the thrust line of the model.

Hey just realised, I sort of sound like I know what I am talking about, well sort of!!!:silly:

Rob

Cookie 01-23-2008 10:40 PM

I could be wrong so wait until you hear form others on this before proceeding. I generally make sure that the front of the motor is centered in the center of the hole in the front of the cowl. If that works out to where the motor is mounted in the center line of the firewall, fine. If not, I don't consider it a big deal. The main concern is to get some right and down thrust into the position of the motor so that it doesn't want to torque to the left or climb excessively. When I look at my planes from the top and side, I can see the off-set, but it's not too extreme. On "X" type outrunner motor mounts, I usually put two washers between the left tab and the firewall and the top tab and the firewall to get the off-set that I want. The left tab is looking at the plane from the rear, like sitting in a car. Now, wait for others to reply before jumping on that drill.;)


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