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-   -   All it takes is one person ( We now have a new field) (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70616)

pd1 05-09-2013 11:06 PM

All it takes is one person ( We now have a new field)
 
Last December our club had it's first noise complaint, we've been there 15 years.
After I heard the complaint I drove to the street where the complainant lives. We had a person fly the noisiest airplane we had. I only could hear it when I shut the engine on my van off, opened the window and there were no cars driving by.

Our club noise regulations were 90db at 9 feet. The person lived 3000 feet from where we were flying.

We didn't have a chance to rebut the "noise", the town shut us down.

Because were rent a spot on a farm, we came under some special rules, It was hinted that if we filled out the paperwork we could get a permit from the town. 6 months and $1,200 in application fees later, no permit.
At the meeting this week, the board discovered that some of its members are abbutters to the abutters of the field.
Why didn't they realize that 6 months ago? So no action on the permit.

Now the state agriculture department is putting us off a few more months.
One member of the board said," farm land is for farming".

I don't think we'll get very far with her.

One member suggested we find another location on the farm that wasn't suitable for farming.
The farm owner said that the area we use is not on her irrigation supply line and if we weren't there she still would not plant there.
Deaf ears.

If we find another location on the farm, the town permit process starts all over again. More money and time and no guarantee of ever getting a permit.

So, If you have one person flying one noisy model, really bad things can happen.

Bub Steve 05-09-2013 11:33 PM

Pushers are the loudest,,,, about like a a I-Phone on full volume,,,, which ain't noisy at all, I'm feel'in for you,,, what a bummer, bubsteve

kyleservicetech 05-10-2013 12:35 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by pd1 (Post 910200)
Last December our club had it's first noise complaint, we've been there 15 years.
After I heard the complaint I drove to the street where the complainant lives. We had a person fly the noisiest airplane we had. I only could hear it when I shut the engine on my van off, opened the window and there were no cars driving by.
.

Yeah, our club's field is located about 2000 feet from the neighbors. And about 1500 feet from a heavily traveled bi-directional set of railroad tracks, located between the flying field and the neighbors. The trains are running about 50 MPH in this area.

The locomotives sound their horn right behind the neighborhood for a road crossing a bit North of the neighbors. I've got video clips of gassers flying by, with the trains obliterating the noise of the gasser models.

So, guess who the neighbors are complaining about in regard to noise?

Take a look at a satellite photo of the flying field.

rcers 05-10-2013 12:46 AM

We are having issues at our field (in a city park on Army Corps land) as the million dollar homes encroach.

We did something several years ago that has saved us (a couple of times over). We do several things for the city - and help them out with volunteering. We also do a fundraiser for the Grapevine police where we have a large fly-in where the entry fee is a toy.

Those items have kept us in really good favor and when the complaints come - they city says "yea they are a great bunch of guys that do a lot for the city, what's the problem again?". If they send the police - we are in great shape they come, listen and then go talk the to habitual complainer saying we are "within" all city ordinances for sound.

Off they go.

We are pretty sure we will have issues again - and already have an electric only proposal ready for the city. I obviously fully support that. :)

Mike

TLyttle 05-10-2013 12:50 AM

Here's how they think: We used to fly beside an airport, right beside the blast fence. The airport was fine with us beiing there (flying 049s C/L), but the "lady" across the street complained to the local authority about the noise we made. I asked her about it (once the old 707 shut down it's engine sinch test) and she said, quote, "I can't do anything about the jets, but I CAN do something about you" And she did. One complaint and she shut down the area, leaving the neighbourhood kids with one less activity. She did pay for it in increased vandalism...

Wildflyer 05-10-2013 01:01 AM

It seems to me after many years in this hobby, that some people are simply against model planes.

I know it is NOT the level of noise a plane makes even if is nitro powered, it is the high frequency of the sound that some people find abrasive. Many times the model can't be heard until all other sounds are quiet. They complain about the airplane even though many other common sounds, like lawn mowers, cars, trucks, and trains are far louder.

Then some peoples complaints can not be figured out, about 1985, several of my friends and I were flying planes on a large field next to a high school. A police car pulled up and the officer walked over to us. He informed us there had been a noise complaint and we would have to pack up and leave, or we all would get a fine for the noise.

We all just stood there looking at each other, finally one guy said " Sir all these planes are gliders pulled up with a long rubber tube, do you see any motors here?"
The cop just looked around at the planes, and then said " S O B "under his breath and walked off.

pd1 05-10-2013 01:24 AM

4 Attachment(s)
I believe some people don't like aviation at all, large or small.

BUT... The local newspaper received and published two letters to the editor that were fantastic. I've attached them, it didn't help, but at least there are some people out there that like model planes.

I've also attached a satellite view of our field with the flying area shown.

Please read the letters to the editor.

Paul

Don Sims 05-10-2013 01:59 AM

This whole deal stinks Paul!

starcad 05-10-2013 05:04 AM


Originally Posted by pd1 (Post 910219)
I believe some people don't like aviation at all, large or small.

BUT... The local newspaper received and published two letters to the editor that were fantastic. I've attached them, it didn't help, but at least there are some people out there that like model planes.

I've also attached a satellite view of our field with the flying area shown.

Please read the letters to the editor.

Paul

Paul, you may want to remove the complaint as it contains his phone numbers and email address. Not good.

hayofstacks 05-10-2013 06:04 AM

this is why club fields suck. our last ama field got closed due to noise complaints. they shut it down answer changed it into an off road atv "park". the local home owners hate it worse, but since its city owned, their screwed.

I'm lucky enough to have salt flats as far as the eye can see within a 30 minute drive. perfect flying field. none go out there and no ama to deal with.

kyleservicetech 05-10-2013 06:16 AM


Originally Posted by Wildflyer (Post 910215)
It seems to me after many years in this hobby, that some people are simply against model planes.

I know it is NOT the level of noise a plane makes even if is nitro powered, it is the high frequency of the sound that some people find abrasive. Many times the model can't be heard until all other sounds are quiet. They complain about the airplane even though many other common sounds, like lawn mowers, cars, trucks, and trains are far louder.

Then some peoples complaints can not be figured out, about 1985, several of my friends and I were flying planes on a large field next to a high school. A police car pulled up and the officer walked over to us. He informed us there had been a noise complaint and we would have to pack up and leave, or we all would get a fine for the noise.

We all just stood there looking at each other, finally one guy said " Sir all these planes are gliders pulled up with a long rubber tube, do you see any motors here?"
The cop just looked around at the planes, and then said " S O B "under his breath and walked off.

A few years back, a local park had complaints against model engine noise. The city's response? "No Engine Powered Model Airplanes Allowed". That park is no longer available, it is presently heavily used by the local kids for soccer and baseball games.

Years ago, one of my local clubs lost their field due to noise complaints by a woman that lived over a mile away. She was friends with the city mayor, and the field was gone. So sad, the farmer right across the road often came over to watch us fly our stuff.

solentlife 05-10-2013 07:48 AM

I believe it often comes down to : I'm not having a good time, so why should anyone else ?

People are like that ... they see others having a good time and they feel left out, alienated ... pee'd off that they are not part of it ... so they object / complain etc.

Logic has no place in this ...... you can have all the right arguments, proof etc. - but at end of day .... it's wasted effort.

Nigel

slipstick 05-10-2013 09:23 AM

It's not just us. There's a car/bike race track where I marshal that's been running for 60+ years and is now getting noise complaints from people who just moved in next to it and then complained that no-one told them it would sometimes be noisy.

It's general "them and us" syndrome....we're apparently enjoying ourselves doing something they don't want to do.....so they want it stopped :(.

Steve

pd1 05-10-2013 10:52 AM

There is a small park up the street from me that I can fly my small electrics in without problems.
I will miss flying with "the guys".
The club has been in existence for 40 + years and this is the third field. Hopefully we'll get another field.
Our rules were/are very simple, just have fun, safely.

Just so everyone knows, we had to hire an attorney and the AMA offered to pay a large portion of our legal expenses.
Our bills would have been much higher without their help.

Paul

gramps2361 05-10-2013 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by pd1 (Post 910241)
There is a small park up the street from me that I can fly my small electrics in without problems.
I will miss flying with "the guys".
The club has been in existence for 40 + years and this is the third field. Hopefully we'll get another field.
Our rules were/are very simple, just have fun, safely.

Just so everyone knows, we had to hire an attorney and the AMA offered to pay a large portion of our legal expenses.
Our bills would have been much higher without their help.

Paul

Paul sorry to hear of the club problems. What chance would you folks have if it went all electric flying? Also would you have enough members to make it work paying any dues and rent.
Glad the AMA helped defray some of the legal costs they do help out when you ask.

CNY_Dave 05-10-2013 02:33 PM

I can almost guarantee the problem is not the noise- there is a certain class of people who will see you doing something they don't understand, and they think you should stop.

That's it.

That's all there is to it.

The only way to win is to get in their face, tell them if there is ever another complaint that there will be a second conversation that will be not nearly so pleasant, then screw them and screw the town and go do what you are going to do.

To win, you literally must threaten them.

If you are not willing to do that, give up what you love or move. I'm dead serious.

There's a reason I live out nowhere, I soon in life realized if I were around busybodies like that there'd quickly be a body count.

toddyrotten 05-10-2013 02:54 PM

If you threaten them, they can call the police and press charges. The busybody will win and the club will only suffer more. I would talk to a lawyer or contact the AMA.

CNY_Dave 05-10-2013 03:00 PM

Ayyyyy, who sa'd anytin' about threatanin' someone?

I meant, just go have a friendly little chat, youse knows what I mean?

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/kt...02_600x338.jpg

pd1 05-10-2013 03:11 PM

I agree with the idea that it's not the noise. The sound is so low at that distance that you have to strain to hear it.
Some people just don't want anyone else to enjoy themselves.

I just saw a talking head on TV say that only 6 percent of kids get out side the house to play. We have a few kids in the club and I hope they don't turn into video game fanatics.
It was nice to have whole families at the field on week ends enjoying themselves.

About half the club members fly electric planes at present, maybe more in the near future.

Dereck 05-10-2013 03:12 PM

We are, despite what some may think, a very small group of adults doing something that the rest of population thinks of as 'playing with kids toys'. Thus any complaint against a modelling group, club or whatever is easily solved by the PooBahs and Iams at village/city/county/state hall - no more model flying there.

It's pretty world-wide. I was in a club in England, around three miles from the two biggest USAF bases in England, perhaps even Europe. If you've never heard the likes of an F111 or F15 in the visual circuit, you are lucky.

Anyway, small club, renting a patch off a local landowner. Within legal and safe limits of the USAF base flight patterns, all that good stuff. One neighbour didn't like it. We found out that, after we'd been kicked off, that the protestor had submitted a petition of supporting claimants to get rid of the noise issue. Most signatures were from the complainer's family, one signature came from a family member who lived in Scotland. Must have had real good hearing, that's around 300 miles north...

The quiet flight only site I used to fly at in Maryland had been home to the DC RC - one of the founder RC clubs in the US. The site was atop a capped off landfill in an industrial area. Then some developer built a bunch of pretty big houses next to the landfill. Yes, you'd think that someone who could earn enough to buy a house like that would not to want to live by an old landfill.

Regardless, one of their new neighbours didn't like the noise and had connections with the local county - who had not only allowed the club to fly off the site, they'd installed running water, electricity, sunshades, two tarmac runways and a dirt road up the landfill to the site.

The club was soon ordered off the site - to another county patch, way out in the country.

The whiner eventually moved - tracked by a club member who had a business close by - and gentle nudging got the site back for quiet flight only. That has to be rare, if not unique.

There's a club up in the north of Illinois that got booted off their site by a horsey club - another source of good contact with the Iams at *Hall. They re-formed as electrics only and have another pretty good site, but are scrambling for enough members to be financially viable.

So, it can be done, but you need lots of luck and determination.

The offered alternative of doing nothing to help the rest of our hobby bar slagging off the AMA, without whom it would be impossible to buy cheap Chinese rip-off stuff, and going flying on some dirt patch/school yard/wherever until told to go away, then moving to somewhere similar could, one day, be our only recourse. At least now, such people can't shoot down any unfortunates flying on legitimate sites thanks to 2.4meg RC gear. Not that suchlike would bother them about doing that to others.

Regards
Dereck

toddyrotten 05-10-2013 03:37 PM


Originally Posted by CNY_Dave (Post 910263)
Ayyyyy, who sa'd anytin' about threatanin' someone?

I meant, just go have a friendly little chat, youse knows what I mean?

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/kt...02_600x338.jpg

Sorry, I misunderstood.;-)

Wildflyer 05-10-2013 06:33 PM

I have seen this same type of complaints close other things.

The hardest one to understand was this;

In my high school and collage years (mid to late 60's) several of my friends and I liked to hot-rod cars, who didn't back then?
We hung around a speedshop that ground cams, and crankshafts, ported and polished heads, and built full race engines. I did final building of the engines, while 2 friends ground the cams & cranks, another kid ground valves and assembled the heads.

There was a drag strip miles away from any town or any home. It was about 1/2 mile off the highway, totally surrounded by tall fir trees. the name was the Puyallup Drag Strip.
Many large races were held there. People like Big Daddy Don Garlits, Jerry Ruth and too many others to even think about.

What I am getting at, is that this was not just a bunch of guys flying airplanes, this was a multi million dollar business,

Then some idiot home building company, bought a large chunk of land along the highway and down the entrance road to the drag strip. I guess it might have been cheap land because of the noise. They built many homes and of course sold them. After a short while the homeowners got together and wouldn't you know, they started complaining about the noise, that they knew was just down the road from them. They absolutely knew about the drag strip because there was a billboard sized sign, at the highway, pointing down the road that went straight through the housing area.

They all ended up in court, and guess what; the drag strip was shut down.

The same exact chain of things happened to my old gun club, only this time the gun club won, and was granted a lifetime permit by the court.

I am this years president of an all electric club here in Lacey, called PSSF, we have homes visible from the runway, but a long ways off, behind us are homes much closer. We do not allow even loud electric planes before 8:00 am. So far no noise complaints. The land owner loves us, and offers his backhoe for large digs, he has even instructed his heirs, that the flying field must remain. I feel we are very lucky. You can zoom in to see our field in the link below.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...01929&t=h&z=16

I wish you all the same luck.

CNY_Dave 05-10-2013 11:44 PM

They do that to motocross tracks all the time- move in knowing it's there, then they shut it down.

zoltron55 05-11-2013 12:13 PM

I would ask the farmer to do a tractor pull or mud drags at the field. the the whiners will be glad to have you back

road king 97 05-11-2013 02:54 PM

For some reason Cook county IL has made spots for rc flying in parks and populated areas .I know of 4 clubs that fly off of forest preserve county property here in IL and one in another county to handle Naperville IL but naperville charges flyers 100 for a flying permit. We in joliet had to pull up are flying field 15 years ago and move further out in the boonys because of new housing and the new drag strip and nascar track on tr 66 . Or field is now a couple miles east of both the drag strip and roundy round track so the bigest noise anyone complains about it the funny cars and nascar races and they leave us alone. So i would say to try and find a place were someone else is loader than the planes /move out where no one lives or go electrict.


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