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-   -   Aircraft reccomendations for new flyers (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26384)

carld2002 11-05-2007 10:20 PM

Aircraft reccomendations for new flyers
I am looking to buy a r/c plane in the next couple weeks.

I have pretty much decided on electric flight because it will allow me to fly pretty much anywhere.

I have $80-150 to spend.

I do not have much experience with r/c aircraft but I do not want a trainer for these reasons:

-I am going to university next year and will have no money to upgrade to a better one for a few years.
-I am a real world pilot and therefore, I may be able to apply alot of it to r/c flying.

For those reasons, I would like recomendations for an experienced flyer. I want the best aircraft for the money, not the easiest to fly.

I am asking for your reccommendations for aircraft that fit into these categories:

-Must have ailerons, elevators, and preferably rudder (though rudder is not necessary.
-Must have potential for aerobatics, plus have the capability to be fairly fast

-The more controll surfaces, the better.

-The ability to take off and land by itself is much, much prefered.

-I do not care if it is a kit or a prebuilt... I have experience with model kits and I think that I could do a kit without any problems (Might even prefer a kit for the fun)

-For the $80-$150, It must include everything I need to fly it.

Also, two questions: Can you explain to me the advantages and disadvantages of ducted fan over normal engines?

Can you explain what the difference is between the channels? example: 2ch, 3ch....

Thank you

Liquidity 11-05-2007 10:56 PM

Welcome to RC flying. It is a great hobby that will take a considerable amount of your time. It is addictive as well as rewarding.

That being said, please take this as purely a recommendation and not as an insult.

I am a private pilot and flew for the military for a little while. RC flying is NOTHING like real flying. NOTHING AT ALL. You are standing on the ground and not behind the controls in the cockpit. You also can not "feel" what the aircraft is doing.

I know you said you do not want a beginner airplane, but you will be upset if you get a acrobatic plane and crash it in .23 seconds. Most beginner planes are pretty strong and can take a beating.

I recommend a Wing Dragon 4 from www.hobby-lobby.com It has 4 channels (rudder, elevator, ailerons, throttle). It will teach you RC flight well and has the 4 channels that you wanted.

If you are dead set on a highly acrobatic plane, I recommend the extra 330L $199.00 from www.parkflyers.com. It is made out of foam and can take a little more abuse than a balsa aircraft. You can also buy spare parts for the plane from the same website.

It is difficult to find a plane that is RTF (Ready to Fly), includes the battery, transmitter, esc, reciever, servos,.... that fits your criteria.

I am sure 99.5% of the members here will agree with me that it is not a wise idea to jump into a highly acrobatic plane right off the bat. Take your time and learn to fly rc first.

Hope that helps.

Biplane Murphy 11-05-2007 10:59 PM

I agree with Liquuidity 100%.

Wing Dragon 4 sounds like a good one for you.....It's in your budget, and is 4 channel control.

Liquidity 11-05-2007 10:59 PM

2ch - Throttle control and some other surface (usually rudder)
3ch - Throttle control and 2 control surfaces (elevator and rudder, elevator and ailerons)
4 ch - Throttle control and 3 control surfaces (elevator, rudder, ailerons)
5 ch - Same as 4 channel with flaps, gear, or something else

stinkweed007 11-05-2007 11:08 PM

WD4 as well.. plenty of pep, and can take a beating..

Frank Voikel 11-06-2007 12:01 AM

I, too, will say that even if you're a pilot, you'll seriously struggle if you go straight to an advanced plane. I'd highly recommend at least getting a 3-4ch trainer. I'll second the others' recommendation for the Wing Dragon 4. Otherwise, I would recommend the Super Cub, but that's not what you want.
If you're dead set on getting a intermediate/advanced plane, I'd recommend the Parkzone F-27b/c Stryker. It goes plenty fast, but it's made of foam so that it goes back together after a crash without any trouble using just a little bit of epoxy or CA.

carld2002 11-06-2007 12:40 AM

So about the advantages/disadvantages of ducted fan?

Maybe I won't go to the super advanced aircraft just yet.

I like the features that the wing dragon has but it seems kinda ugly.

I don't mind buying a kit as I said, I may even prefer it.

I may not be looking for the best performance then. What would you recommend as a 4ch plane that I can use to learn easily, but then use it as a fairly good aerobatic plane when I get better?

I will probably take a trip to a local shop this weekend and see what they sell/have to say.

stinkweed007 11-06-2007 12:51 AM

yup... the WD is not always picked for her looks.. but to drill her into the ground from 50 ft.. wipe the dirt off and replace a rubberband... that is priceless at the field.. and real easy on the 'dont want to spend more money' subject.

I just got an Edge 540T (parkflyers) she's good.. but you really need to get your feet wet first.. I went straight from a WD4 to a P-38.. and was heartbroken when I totaled her.. there really is a difference. I am a private pilot as well.. understanding what an aircraft does, will give you an advantage, but you are not sitting inside, and not feeling and reacting to all your senses working as if in the cockpit, its kind of a different animal. you really need to start with a plane that wants to fly stable by itself.

Biplane Murphy 11-06-2007 12:53 AM

My advise, in addition to what has been said already..... Do some serious research, and don't buy anything right away...... Then make your decision after weighing all options.....Especially since you have a limited budget.

FlyingMonkey 11-06-2007 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by carld2002 (Post 299716)
So about the advantages/disadvantages of ducted fan?

I may not be looking for the best performance then.

What would you recommend as a 4ch plane that I can use to learn easily, but then use it as a fairly good aerobatic plane when I get better?

I am not sure what the disadvantage of a ducted fan would be, other than they are usually combined with higher performance aircraft. Thus, not for beginners. The advantage would be no external blades to break and replace.

Medium performance will feel like high performance until you get the hang of it. Nothihng will ruin the hobby for you like spending all that money, and trashing the plane on one of the first flights. Everyone wants something to grow into, they don't realize that's what multiple planes are for....

I like the recommended Wing Dragon for what you're looking for. It will also make a good aerial photography platform, from what I hear. Something you might find worth pursuing when you've learned the basics. Thus, being a plane you can grow into. You'll find that once you get better at flying, you'll still want to fly the easy plane, as well as having faster, more acrobatic aircraft.

carld2002 11-06-2007 01:08 AM

I have found a local store that actually does carry the wing dragon, and it is only $80 there. Unfortunately, they only sell the 3ch version so I am unsure.

Are ducted fan aircraft usually faster?

Anything like the wing dragon that is a bit nicer looking?

FlyWheel 11-06-2007 01:12 AM

I agree. knowing how to fly a 'real' plane has nothing to do with knowing how to fly something when you're on the outside looking up at it. Superman would have to follow a learning curve, and he's a better flyer than you! ;) The experience is totally different when you're standing on the ground. If your hobby shop has an RC sim program on display, ask them if you can try it, you'll see what we mean.

Sure, trainers are ugly, but not as ugly as a really good looking plane will be after it's been lawn-darted! :eek: http://mescal.pixelized.ch/smilies/cry.gif

I would recommend the Multiplex EasyStar personally. it's tough, easy to fly (and repair), and it can be upgraded to a better performer as you become a better performer.

It also looks better than the WD (which, IMHO, is ugly!).

FlyingMonkey 11-06-2007 01:16 AM

You'll be hard pressed to find a plane that's durable, 4 channel, and good looking.

If it's your first plane, good looking will not last past the first few flights anyhow.

Take it from someone with plenty of experience of uglying up planes.

Biplane Murphy 11-06-2007 01:18 AM

Good looking planes are usually hard to fly for a beginner....

Hold out for the WingDragon 4..... You can order it and get it in just a few days....

Ducted fans may and may not be faster.....there are prop planes that are extremely fast.

FlyingMonkey 11-06-2007 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by carld2002 (Post 299736)
Are ducted fan aircraft usually faster?

I could be very wrong here, but as I understand it...

They have to be flown faster. Picture this, you're on a ten speed bike, and you've only got one gear, fast. It takes a lot of work to work up speed, but once you're there, you can maintain it pretty easy.

Ducted fans are kinda like that, they perform well at a high speed. When you launch them, you have to give them a good toss, or use a bungee. They slowly pick up speed, and are hard to control until you get that speed.

Now, trainers usually have a larger propeller designed for more thrust than speed, with large wings designed for slow flight. They have good control at slow speeds, which make them better at the harder parts of your flight, the take off and landing.

The wing dragons do a good job of combining both, from what I hear. You have a "faster" plane, with some aerobatic abilities.

If your hobby shop has one Wing Dragon in stock, it's likely they can order you the 4 channel one. Try it, I doubt you'll be dissapointed.

Liquidity 11-06-2007 01:47 AM

Ducted fans are just different. Not necessarily faster. I had 2 ducted fans. They are loud and look cool, however my Dons RC "wicked" outrunner has put my old ducted fans to shame.

A lot of people like ducted fans becuase you can make some pretty hot looking warbirds.

carld2002 11-06-2007 01:54 AM

I just want to set it straight that I never said that my past experience would make me a perfect rc pilot. I just said that there were shared principles that could be applied.

I would like to also say thanks to everyone with the help so far. Keep it coming please, I am learning alot.

FlyingMonkey 11-06-2007 01:58 AM

try not to take anything anyone says in a bad way.

some guys here are better rc pilots than online instructors....

It has been said, often by full scale pilots, that they make the worst RC students.

Your big advantage is that you already have an understanding of the importance of proper CG, weight to thrust, stalls, and so forth.

Orientation will be your biggest enemy.

RC cars used to get me all the time, fortunately when you mess up with that, you're already on the ground.

The planes either smash, or sit mockingly, up in trees...

Liquidity 11-06-2007 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey (Post 299773)

The planes either smash, or sit mockingly, up in trees...

Did yours ever come down :)

FlyingMonkey 11-06-2007 02:01 AM

actually, yeah

got it back down a couple hours later.

surprisingly, that film and balsa plane came down without a scratch!

stinkweed007 11-06-2007 02:07 AM

2 Attachment(s)
plus.. for a really juicy ducted fan (EDF) aircraft... your stated budget is way to low.. EDF aircraft look cool.. because they ARE cool, a good performance EDF costs a good chunk of change to get right.. EDF motors have to run faster, longer.. because the prop for an EDF has to spin a few notches faster than a prop aircraft. that usually means, faster motor, more juice from a performance battery.. ect ect..

I learned early on something that was said to me here in the forums, Im happier walking home with a funny looking plane that flew well and will again after recharge, than a snazzy looking plane in pieces..

took me 1 (my first) Edge 540T, and 1 1/2 P-38's before I finally listened.. (I totalled the p-38 5 times before I gave in..) pictured is just the first one..

phillipmorris 11-06-2007 02:16 AM

I believe all they are trying to say is your not in the pilot seat, you have a tremendous advantage on the principals of flying, and likely to become an exceptional rc flyer....one of our best local flyers I recently ran into is an airline pilot, simply amazing rc flyer..but my cousin flew several small private planes even gave intructions for jet flying, but piled my Trainer in on landing, the easy Super Cub, above average trainer, $150 includes even transimitter but only rudder and rear elevator and throttle, love it tho and use it for Night Flights..<>.

Stryker, this one is a jump ahead of trainers, but found it docile for this type of bird, wing shape, not ducted, even the lower model Stryker B which I have can go 50 MPH, the Stryker C even more responsive with brushless motor will hit 80 MPH and handel vertical rolls etc, however Stryker C above the beginner level, B is $169 and C model over $200..I rate mayself as below average flyer but having a ball with the Stryker B...<>..

If your lucky enough to have a seasoned rc flyer, your could start with a slightly advanced plane, all have different levels of learning skills, do the research, check videos on ones you like, will help on making the decision YOU WANT..Its a wonderful hobby, Electrics able to fly in local school yards etc, fantastic...<>.. BEST its a great adventure..<>.. WARREN .<>..

carld2002 11-06-2007 02:21 AM

As for orientation, I have slight experience with the airhogs planes as I own one. Unfortunately,It was flown like 3 times because it was crappy, the lipo battery died after only flying it twice, and they were mis-advertized.

Ducted fans seem like they might be a little more durable because they are enclosed.

I am planning to work on orientation through microsoft flight simulator on tower view mode.

Sucks about that p38.

What is a good materiel for durability that falls withing my price range?

pburt1975 11-06-2007 02:39 AM

What about the Bellanca Decathalon from Hobby Lobby? Its a 3 or 4ch, and cost 120, plus 9 shipping. You can start it off as a 3ch, then as you progress cut the ailerons and install the servo to have a 4ch plane. Tx and Rx come with it.

Seriously tho, this plane is in my considerations as well is it worth it?

Liquidity 11-06-2007 02:46 AM

I am not a fan of the bellanca. I saw one fly. It flew ok, but it was not durable. The guy had a rather rough laning (the WD woudl have been fine) and the fuse snapped. Granted a little medium CA and kicker or epoxy and everything would have been fine. It looked too brittle for my liking.

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