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-   -   WWI planes (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259)

Biplane Murphy 09-05-2007 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by scalercflyer (Post 266282)
6 ailerons on a DRI!! What nerve! Martin

Hi Martin.... I actually thought about doing that to mine while I had it de-covered...;-)... But I thought you might hunt me down so I left it with 2 ailerons...:Q:Q:Q

xuzme720 09-05-2007 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by Biplane Murphy (Post 266290)
Hi Martin.... I actually thought about doing that to mine while I had it de-covered...;-)... But I thought you might hunt me down so I left it with 2 ailerons...:Q:Q:Q

see, what you do, Murph, is build em in but in a way they can be "locked off" so it only looks like 2 ailerons...then when Martin isn't looking, hook those linkages up and go crazy with scary lightning fast twitchy rolls!

ok...I admit, bad idea!

Biplane Murphy 09-05-2007 06:39 AM


Originally Posted by xuzme720 (Post 266293)
see, what you do, Murph, is build em in but in a way they can be "locked off" so it only looks like 2 ailerons...then when Martin isn't looking, hook those linkages up and go crazy with scary lightning fast twitchy rolls!

ok...I admit, bad idea!

Well.... I will get the scary twitchy rolls with the 3-D arms I will be putting on the Aileron servos.... just like I did with the SE5a and Fokker DVII...;-)

xuzme720 09-05-2007 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by Biplane Murphy (Post 266294)
Well.... I will get the scary twitchy rolls with the 3-D arms I will be putting on the Aileron servos.... just like I did with the SE5a and Fokker DVII...;-)

the bad idea was incurring the wrath of Martin when he finds out you have 6 ailerons!::o

Biplane Murphy 09-05-2007 06:45 AM


Originally Posted by xuzme720 (Post 266295)
the bad idea was incurring the wrath of Martin when he finds out you have 6 ailerons!::o

Yep... He hates those non-scale rudders too.:<

Oh yeah... and all red tripes.;-)

xuzme720 09-05-2007 06:58 AM


Originally Posted by Biplane Murphy (Post 266299)
Yep... He hates those non-scale rudders too.:<

Oh yeah... and all red tripes.;-)

so I've read! have to remember that!

WWI Ace 09-06-2007 06:03 PM

Hey Martin think of how many more kills the Red Baron would have had with his RED triplane with six ailerons!!! Steve.

Bub Steve 09-06-2007 06:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
WWI Ace::Was'nt It was more their ability to side-slip ( oppose'in rudder&ailerons) that got most the kill's,?Their roll rates were already insane!!!your bub, stevecooper

50+AirYears 09-06-2007 07:03 PM

That one American ace who got to appear in interviews on Wings creditted his getting out of tight spots to being able to side slip and skid when somebody was on his tail. Ricthoffen and other aces generally followed (Bolkow's?) rules, got into the opponent's blind spot at short distance, often just by diving through a formation, and making the kill, then getting out of the way and climbing for altitude to make another diving attack, just like the Flying Tiger's tactics with the "Obsolute and outclassed" P-40s in WW II. Many of them seemed to find the mix-up of a dog fight to be an inefficient waste of time, fuel, and ammunition. See your target first, close in from the blind spot till you were close enough to make the kill, then get back above the enemy for another run.

WWI Ace 09-06-2007 11:44 PM

Yeah stevecooper the side slip was used very effectively. If you have read about Werner Voss' last fight you will find that this tactic was used quite well against his enemies. It almost scared them that the plane could manouver in that manner!! He also managed to put a bullet hole in every Allied plane he was up against in that fight. Anybody remember how many planes he fought against single handedly? How 'bout the aces name that was credited with shooting Voss down? I'd bet that Martin knows!! Do you? But still, six ailerons!!! You could run head on at your enemy rolling so fast you'd look like a drill bit!!! Steve.

Bub Steve 09-07-2007 12:33 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Steve::I do it all the time , side slips to get the wing to stay under the wind -----> for cross-wind land'ins' And forward slips to drop in those tight places without gain'in or lose'in speed, Oppose'in the rudder an ailerons is unnatural to most of us an seem REALLY WEIRD the first few times but with practice you'll do it with-out think'in bout it much, your bub, stevecooper

WWI Ace 09-07-2007 06:09 PM

Yeah stevecooper I can do it too!! How big of servos does it take for the tripe in the pic you just posted? Steve.

Bub Steve 09-07-2007 08:23 PM

prob'ly look like car starters
 
1 Attachment(s)
Steve:::I don't know but they prob'ly look like car starters , your bub stevecooper

FlyingMonkey 09-07-2007 11:47 PM

Where are you getting those unskinned DR1 pics?

Bub Steve 09-08-2007 02:18 AM

they were 50% RC planes
 
4 Attachment(s)
FlyingMonkey::I was look'in up some stuff on that WW1 movie a while back, I'll try to look up the link again, I think there were several an they were 50% RC planes, May have been the same guy's that did the hughes movie( an inspiration to your's truly in build'in my monkey chopper) your bub, stevecooper PS here's some match'in av's for you an the weee'zila

FlyingMonkey 09-08-2007 06:06 AM

have you flown monkey chopper yet?

Bub Steve 09-08-2007 04:57 PM

U.H ( hobbyCity-or whatever they call them selfs this month
 
3 Attachment(s)
FlyingMonkey::Still wait'in on U.H ( hobbyCity-or whatever they call them selfs this month)for the couple of hundred $ worth of flite packs & batt's,. I didn't dare get anything on backorder (horror stories I've read) Been use'in their 850,3-cell-20c with no prob's on my Se5A ( On topic, YAAA)witch calls for a much larger batt,an thought I'd go with the same Hitronix ( two in parallel)but after wait'in 6weeks i got two 1000 3-cell, 20+c ( their rating's) An stuff on the way!! Watch you tail monkey-bub!!your bub, stevecooper

WWI Ace 09-08-2007 05:01 PM

I buy ALOT of stuff from UH but I ALWAYS wait till it's in stock. So stevecooper YOU'RE the one buyin' up all the lipolys so I can't get any yet!!!! Steve.

WWI Ace 09-09-2007 10:47 PM

Okay guys I'm still workin' on the tripe. I still don't have a new camera for pics, hope to get one soon!! I made the cones for the parkflyer wheels I'm using. I used an index card for the cones to save weight. I've almost also completely built my Wright Bros. machine gun kits. It takes a little while to build 'em but it's worth it!! They have the cocking handles and everything on 'em!! Put all the decals on the tripe that I stole from my old Guillows tripe. Then I sprayed a coat of satin clear over them to make them last longer. It doesn't look perfect but if it flies it should look acceptable in the air. Steve.

degreen60 09-11-2007 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by WWI Ace (Post 267351)
But still, six ailerons!!! You could run head on at your enemy rolling so fast you'd look like a drill bit!!! Steve.

The Sopwith had six ailerons. Guess I shoud add ailerons to mine. I read a short artical long time ago written by a WW1 flyer. He said the plane he flew was so unstable that if he let go of the stick he did not know what the plane would do. He guessed that the Germans did not know what it would do either cause the only two times he was attacked he just let go of the stick and lost them. Wish he had told what airplane he was flying.

50+AirYears 09-11-2007 04:42 PM

I seem to recall reading that the Baron didn't like the Dr-1 because of it's basic instability. Of course, almost any of the WW I planes that used a rotary engine had some nasty snap roll habits because of the large rotating mass. I seem to recall an article in a 1960s Air Progress about a reproduction tripe. It was a handfull to fly. And the axe handles used for wingtip skids took a beating with a nasty tendency to ground loop. I imagine landing one, blipping the kill switch to loose altitude, then having to release it to go immediately to full throttle (most rotaries had no throttle, only full on and full off) to avoid the plane quitting flying from the drag of a round cowl and three wings gave a pilot a sore leg from fighting torque and the centrifugal force and gyroscopic precession of that rotating engine. Killed more than a few German pilots.

I understand the Camel and other low aspect ratio planes with rotaries had the same problems. Pilots always had to be thinking ahead and reacting to these characteristics, just to survive flying the planes, let alone surviving combat. They gave a pilot only one mistake, his last.

Of course, ground handling characteristics of the Bf 109 helped the allies in WW II. Supposedly somewhere between 1600 and 1700 potential German pilots in training didn't survive to see combat because of ground looping on landing and take-off with that narrow tread lg. Pilots flying the Spanish Bf 109s for the Battle of Brittain movie supposedly found they were almost impossible to land or take off from a hard surface runway.

Iron men in wooden planes.

scalercflyer 09-13-2007 02:58 AM

Gp Dri
 
Boys, check out this thread on the GP DRI. Pay special attention to the video. BTW, the rudder looks like a barn door on the back of that magnificent airplane. Thoughts please Guys! Martin
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657521

scalercflyer 09-13-2007 03:12 AM

Gp Dri
 
Guys make sure you read ALL of the thread comments. It seems the RIMFIRE motors have a nasty habit of losing the shaft. I'm not using one in mine! martin

Biplane Murphy 09-13-2007 03:16 AM

Hi Martin... That video looks exactly like the test flight I performed on my buddies DR1..... I landed it (motorless) with minor damage to the landing gear..... Definately fiberglass the motor mount box!!!! .... It sounds like a common problem....

By the way... you asked how GP responded to my buddy... They gave him the run around, so he returned everything to the LHS (including all the electric gear he had purchased and not used) and will never fly electric again due to that motor mount situation.... GP then replaced the plane for the LHS promptly....I guess it helps to get the LHS to do the dirty work.

WWI Ace 09-14-2007 12:15 AM

Looks like to me they have a bunch of scared tripe pilots!!! I guess that most people think that they are simple to fly and when they're not they get mad. Part of the thrill of flying one is the difficulty of it. They are VERY different from the "cookie cutter" airplanes!! If all planes flew the same the hobby would be very boring!! I like the challenge of flying something that everyone else is afraid to try. It makes me appreciate my piloting skills more. Steve.

Voyager2lcats 09-17-2007 04:47 AM


Originally Posted by stevecooper (Post 268434)
FlyingMonkey::Still wait'in on U.H ( hobbyCity-or whatever they call them selfs this month)for the couple of hundred $ worth of flite packs & batt's,. I didn't dare get anything on backorder (horror stories I've read) Been use'in their 850,3-cell-20c with no prob's on my Se5A ( On topic, YAAA)witch calls for a much larger batt,an thought I'd go with the same Hitronix ( two in parallel)but after wait'in 6weeks i got two 1000 3-cell, 20+c ( their rating's) An stuff on the way!! Watch you tail monkey-bub!!your bub, stevecooper

Totally off topic, but what the hey- are you going full house with the Monkey Chopper (Hughes FX-11?)? It looks like you are setting up for ailerons, elevator, and rudder. It looks good. I like your use of bamboo dowels- they're great and you don't have to worry about breathing carbon when you cut it.;) Your other bub,

Bob

WWI Ace 09-21-2007 06:09 PM

Okay, the guys in the new club we're forming have screwed up!!! They elected me president and safety officer! This weekend we'll finish mowing the field. We're getting close now to being up and running. Steve.

Bub Steve 09-21-2007 06:54 PM

Hard hats on the flite-line!
 
3 Attachment(s)
Voyager2lcatsThanks my bub, go'in all out, Six cells (two 3's in parallel)Counter rotate'in ETC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Missed your post somehow, thanks your bub, stevecooper p s WWI Ace as president , But "safety officer"? Hard hats on the flite-line!!!!!Just kidd'in ,congratulations !!!!

Voyager2lcats 09-21-2007 07:08 PM


Originally Posted by stevecooper (Post 276387)
Voyager2lcatsThanks my bub, go'in all out, Six cells (two 3's in parallel)Counter rotate'in ETC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Missed your post somehow, thanks your bub, stevecooper p s WWI Ace as president , But "safety officer"? Hard hats on the flite-line!!!!!Just kidd'in ,congratulations !!!!

Not like I need to tell you, but make sure you post your maiden results (I know you're waiting on some hardware) and any pics if possible. That is one cool plane. Too bad the U.S. Army Air Force didn't buy it. I'll bet nothing could have caught it back then.

Bub Steve 09-21-2007 07:19 PM

any day now the long awaited parcel for U.H is posted an on the way! Think'in bout a WW1 french mono I saw a while back but the name escapes me at the moment but she's a cute'y ( trainer?) any thoughts my bub's? stevecooper

Voyager2lcats 09-21-2007 07:35 PM


Originally Posted by stevecooper (Post 276398)
any day now the long awaited parcel for U.H is posted an on the way! Think'in bout a WW1 french mono I saw a while back but the name escapes me at the moment but she's a cute'y ( trainer?) any thoughts my bub's? stevecooper

Steve,
Check out this fiddlers green link http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/airc...o/bul_info.htm and tell me if that is the model. Should be a Moraine-Saulnier Type 'N". Your other bub,

Bob

Biplane Murphy 09-21-2007 10:02 PM


Originally Posted by WWI Ace (Post 276361)
Okay, the guys in the new club we're forming have screwed up!!! They elected me president and safety officer! This weekend we'll finish mowing the field. We're getting close now to being up and running. Steve.

Nice...Pres. and Safety Officer.....I'm the V.P. and Club instructor....

How do we get conned into such things?...:<:

Bub Steve 09-21-2007 10:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Voyager2lcats Thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!your bub, stevecooper

Voyager2lcats 09-22-2007 04:04 AM


Originally Posted by stevecooper (Post 276536)
Voyager2lcats Thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!your bub, stevecooper

Don't ask me how I knew- I just did.:)

WWI Ace 09-22-2007 04:17 AM

I don't know how we get conned into this stuff Murph. They're talking about making me the club instructor also. Don't exactly know why I JOINED A CLUB IF I'M GONNA BE EVERYTHING!!! Ha ha!!!! I wonder if I'll have to be my own students too!! Steve.

dicknadine 09-22-2007 03:03 PM

it sure is nice to be the TOP DOG. its all worth spreading our knowledge to others, both young and old on how to do the model airplane stuff. specially that it doesent all come in a box, ready to fly, via the computor. keep the razor knife sharp and continue to chop the balsa. dick

scalercflyer 09-22-2007 08:04 PM

Top Dog
 
Many years ago I was a club instructor for South Jersey Flyaways. It was fun, challenging and nerve wracking but I enjoyed it immensely. Sharing the greatest hobby in the world with others is important to us all and the generations to follow. I commend you all (Martin salutes) on your choice to help others learn to fly. I would, however, like to leave you with a word of advice, if I may be so bold. Here is something I practice everyday and have told my Wife on many occasions. It is tremendously uplifting and very good for you. When I get up in the morning I look in the mirror and say to myself, I AM THE KING AND I CAN DO NO WRONG. I would suggest you practice this in front of the mirror and your respective Family members. This will better prepare you for your day and embolden you for the tasks ahead (instructing, etc). Remember this Instructors, YOU are the King and can do no wrong in the eyes of your students. Martin

Biplane Murphy 09-22-2007 08:07 PM

I like it......Nice pep talk Martin.:)

WWI Ace 09-23-2007 03:42 AM

Sorry I haven't been on today guys. Got the field mowed!! Trying to figure out how to make a good runway without spending too much. Our grass is too rough out in that old pasture. Any ideas guys? We're thinking maybe putting down some clay. We had nine guys at the meeting. Three men and my youngest son were all that showed up to work on the field!! Figures doesn't it!!! Steve.

Spoonwasher 09-23-2007 10:15 AM

Hello Steve
In any club,not just flying either,there always seems to be a nucleus of those that are more active and get the work done and are generally more invovled.It will always probably be that way, human nature I supose.So myself I just accept that, thank those who do lend a hand because one does like a little company, even the King ...LoL..
Now I'm no landscaper, but at our club we built our field on an reclaimed land fill site.we had to add topsoil to grow grass, as the clay just got too hard and cracked. What helped the most is we got a power roller to roll the field originally , the roll the field in the spring when thigs are a little softer'adding topsoil in the low potholes and grass seed.We weed and feed each fall.We run a small roller behind the mower deck a couple times a year now just to keep things in shape.Most of our dues for the 30 members go to leasing the land and grass seed and topsoil and we pay a retired guy to mow it and roll it for us.It works for us and keeps costs low.If you have a work day or need a project done , make sure you include a little flying afterward...it helps inspire a little vision to those helping, a little payback for their hard work.Good Luck my friend.
Don From the Long Sault flyers ...


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