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-   -   WWI planes (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259)

Ron 11-28-2006 06:35 AM

Martin....it's a deep dark secret....i'll post a picture as soon as it's recogniseable.....

reddevil1111 12-07-2006 02:30 AM

Just found your thread
 
Guys, I am new to WW1 aircraft. I just purchased a Earl Sthal Fokker D-VIII kit 1/6 scale and will be building it this winter. I have a lot of questions.
I have never set up an electric plane.
Also,I am wondering about the pro's and con's to electric vs glow. What color schemes are you considering for your D-VIII's? Red seems nice...lol but...
Could you help me out with advice? I would love to see your kits being built and how you set up the kits for electric. I want to be as close to 100% scale as possable. I am even running white rubber wheels for accuracy. I look forward to sharing my build and seeing yours as well! Dan

reddevil1111 12-07-2006 02:31 AM

I might want to get a ARF kit as well...I vote on a DR-VII ...cost?

Cookie 12-07-2006 04:06 AM

Dan, you asked the deadly question, electric vs glow. That's a whole big can of worms that ends up in arguements. Check here and The E-Zone and you should be able to find plenty of "build threads" that people have posted regarding building bi-planes and monoplanes.

reddevil1111 12-07-2006 07:11 AM

?
 
I am not in this site trying to stir trouble. I am looking for information on why electric seems so popular(I honestly have not built a kit in 12 or more years) I know that it is cleaner, and glow will have more power. I do not know &^*% about electric other than that. I am looking for info from anyone who is building a similar kit.
I am also looking for info on how the wings on the D-VIII are attached. The kit/plans I have coming from Earl Sthal show hooks made from brass that hold the wing to the struts. I am wanting to have a removable wing and am looking at how others might approach the same problem.
As well as the wheel wing. My plans call for removal when the kit is in flight. Yet I have seen several other kits in viedo flying with the wing. (what gives?)
I would love to hear on paint (as to what others plan on covering thier kits with and if its accurate or just for fun) I have found old accounts that near the end of the war many planes were equipt with synthitic white rubber tires. I just recived an email from Daniel @ Williams Bros., he says he will soon be offering a white tire (how cool is that?!)
I would love to see how someone took this older kit and updated it. (I am open minded and want a scale, well built plane...So I am looking for help, tricks and hints from anyone and everyone to make this my best kit ever!)
So I suppose I have a lot of questions, and need a lot of help. i would love to get some from you guys. I have built kits before, but it has been a while and I know there is a lot of advances in how things are dont.
I used to build on cardboard and use pushpins. Is this still the perfered method? or ?
If anyone lives in Arvada or the north denver metro area, please contact me so I can pick your brain without upsetting all the hanger queens in here. (you know what I mean) so dont get your hanger rash in a bind...lol please guys, I just want to get some answers and some guidance...not start WW3 over a WW1 plane! Thanks,Dan

Ron 12-07-2006 07:45 AM

Dan two things that come to mind....firstly, unfortunately unless you can hook up with some one that has built this particular kit, you kinda have to use the old t-t to figure out the best way for you to attach wings etc....
As far as the axle wing on the EV ( DV111) I fly mine with it on...that's the way the full sized plane was designed to fly, so the model naturally ( if scale) will use the same thing. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the kit you have, but would be interested in hearing/seeing your progress, and problems as they come up....don't look for problems before you start the build though, as then you become kinda paralysed worrying about something that sort of naturally solves itself as you get to it. I know it sounds wierd, but as you get closer to the perceived problem, you will just sorta naturally figure out how to solve it, or you will discover that it actually wasn't a problem in the first place......Usually the guy who designed the kit has done the figuring for you.
Re electric VS glo power....Electric is not less power than glo...lots of times it's much more powerful than wet power, and duration is not an issue either. My 70" pattern plane is powered electrically, and has noticeably better vertical, and just over all power than the same plane powered with a YS110 and at about the same overall cost. That being said, electric is not necessarily better or worse than glo power...just for those of us that use it exclusively, it suits our purpose better than fuel. ie. no mess...no noise...no fuel...fuel pump///starter //// etc...etc.... BUT fuel planes are just as much fun for me to fly as long as you do the clean up and have the smell of castor oil and the little puddle of castor oil on the floor under the model at your place :-) in the end all power systems ( if they work ) are good.....just electric is " gooder " for me :-)...once you have wing area and weight of the " bones" figured out, likely quite a few of us here can and will help you to pick out an electric system for it.
hope you enjoy the build "EV" is a nice looking model.

OOPS..almost forgot..I build on an old door that I have laid 1/2" gyproc onto...it's flat....white so you can see stuff on it, and it holds pins great.

reddevil1111 12-07-2006 02:07 PM

Ron, Thanks for the advice. I will take all of it. I have no bad habbits around (fuel related items for R/C) And it is one major reason for my thinking electric is the way to go. Quiet, safer for my baby(she likes to get into EVERYTHING it seems) So no nitro for her to find on the Garage floor and taste...And the no noise factor seems like a bonus as well. I am concerned about weight and performance as well as cost of the batteries (how long do they last ect.) But this model has a very short cowl...I am thinking of building a dummie engine so going electric would be another bonus there. I will build the aircraft then approach the idea of wing&fuse attachment. But it is a concern... I have spent a large amount of time looking into this kit and builder. Thats why I raised the concerns. Others had them in the past(this is a very old,early kit from the 70's) so we will see...thanks for the help! and whats gyproc? is it drywall? gypsy rock? I am lost on that....:)

flypaper 2 12-07-2006 04:04 PM

I take It is a glow kit. For electric, you can lighten it up a lot as the vibration is not there that a glow engine produces. Ply parts, formers,etc, can be made from hard balsa. Heavy fuel proof finish is not needed. 1/4 in plywood firewall can be cut in half to 1/8 in. Lighter undercarriage can be made as it doesn't need to carry as much weight. All these things help in having a lighter better performing aircraft. Airframe should be able to lighten up to 2/3 or 3/4 of the original airframe. Hope this helps.

Ron 12-10-2006 12:13 AM

gyproc is drywall.......gypsum board covered with paper...It's really good as a building surface...pretty much dead flat, and lasts a long time...it's also cheap.

Cookie 12-10-2006 01:38 AM

Dan, probably the biggest advantage of flying electric is less noise and you can get away with flying in areas where you wouldn't consider flying a glow powered plane. Such as "park flyers". You can fly them in large parks or even high school parking lots, if there aren't any cars in the lot on the week-ends. Keep in mind though, that you need to check on local regulations and municipal codes to make sure it's not prohibited. Also, Li-Poly battery packs are the big deal now. For safety sake, and particularly with having a child in the house, be sure to familiarize yourself with the possible fire hazards related to charging and handling Li-Poly batteries. If charged and handled correctly, they're not a big hazard, but there is the potential for danger if miss-handled.

Cookie 12-10-2006 01:55 AM

Dan,
Here are some links to build threads or reviews:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566137

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ht=Fokker+DVII

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ht=Fokker+DVII

http://www.aerodromerc.com/

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...e+build+thread

reddevil1111 12-11-2006 04:57 PM

Wow!
 
I am VERY thankfull for all the help, and advice! I will try gypsum for a building surface.
I built a 1/4 scale piper cub about 10 years ago as my last build. I took up a new hobbie of restoring International Scouts. I am still into it and doing a resto currently. But I felt that desire to build and found a kit I wanted to build. Than I stumbeled into here off a search for Fokker D-VIII's and realized that electric was a possability....I have decided to go electric for all my kits from now on. (bigger learning curve,but cleaner and easier to run long term thats for sure!
Cookie, Thanks for the advice and the websites! VERY VERY helpfull! I just wish I knew someone in the area to build/fly with. I know of the local clubs...I mean I hope I can find someone who likes to build and is cool as well...we will see. Please keep up the advice! I welcome all tricks,tips,ect...And if anyone has build a D-VIII out there PLEASE<PLEASE send me pic's of your build and finish. THANKS! Dan

Cookie 12-12-2006 12:20 AM

Dan, You're welcome. When I switched over from glow to electric I did a lot of studying and reading to learn as much as possible about electric powered R/C planes. And then, I just scratched the surface. These websites are also good to look up a model to see reviews before you go out and buy it. One of the original Gurus of electric flight is Keith Shaw. He's a professor at some big college back East and he designs and builds electirc powered planes. You should be able to find his articles if you "Google" him. Keep in mind, that he wrote these articles before brushlees motors and Li-Poly batteries were available, but the science still applies.

http://members.aol.com/KMyersEFO/page3.htm

Cookie

Ron 12-15-2006 11:09 PM

Martin...Steve...anyone else.....Have you ever put a clear coating over sharpie ink?? I have to take the shine off it and am running into a problem with the ink running when I spray over it. I think I need something with no alcohol in it. If i can't find something, I'll have to leave it with a shiny surface .( bad bad )

50+AirYears 12-15-2006 11:35 PM

Some years ago I had some good results using several light spray coats of Scotchguard. First couple of coats were just light mist coats intothe air over the surfaces, not a direct spray onto the surface.

WWI Ace 12-15-2006 11:37 PM

I don't know Ron. I've never tried to do that before. Let us know what you find out though!! Steve.

reddevil1111 12-15-2006 11:52 PM

maybe?
 
I would shoot some flat clear spraypaint...like the one testors makes. I know you are on the right track as far as alchol as well as toluine and xylene...good luck!!!

WWI Ace 12-16-2006 12:21 AM

By the way. Welcome reddevil1111. We'll all help you as much as we can but sometimes it's trial and error for us too! Martin and I both have a big DVIII kit but I can't remember who made it off the top of my head. Martin will know though! He's on here pretty regular. There are some really great guys on here! That's how we've made this thread as large as it is. As far as color schemes, DO NOT TELL MARTIN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT RED!!! He hates red planes but he has tons of great research material and he loves to help people out with color schemes. Steve.

reddevil1111 12-16-2006 02:34 AM

If its in the name...lol its game...I am considering just building this kit and monokote it or going as scale as possable...I cant make up my mind. Converting a 1941 kit(thats when it was made) to scale is going to be a lot of work. I might be better off making Earnst Udetts barnstormer out of it(yeah...lol its RED) or just get another kit and build it scale...like the Glenn Torrance kit or even a busa kit.
Thanks for the welcome!
I sure wish all of you lived in Colorado!
Oh btw WW1 Ace? if you do have a Earl Sthal D-VIII kit or whatever name it is, I would LOVE to see your build photos! Thanks!

WWI Ace 12-16-2006 02:48 AM

I think the kits Martin and I have were made in the '80's. We haven't built them yet. He is waiting on me to get some free time so we can build them at the same time. He lives out on the Yankee coast and I live in God's country, (Texas). If the kits that old I say just build it and get it flying. I can say (sadly) from experience that if you make the project too difficult you will have a hard time staying interested enough to finish it. That's just my 2 cents worth! Have you seen the WWI kits at www.aerodromerc.com yet? Mr. Bengston makes some great laser cut kits and has a big DVIII kit for sale. It's already designed for electric so it takes the guess work out of the equation. It's also pretty accurate as far as scale lines go so you wouldn't have to add much to make a great scale model! Steve.

Ron 12-16-2006 05:39 PM

Steve....Martin doesn't like red planes?? since when ?? :confused:

He's gonna just love my D V11...it's black, orange, purple and rrrrrrrrrrrrrred :D :eek: I'm just starting to put it together this weekend...hopefully pics for you tomorrow evening.

Red D....Just build it and you will find that the scale details that you want to put in will just sorta happen, and as long as you get the overall effect, it will turn out fine. ....Don't make the mistake of deciding to do every little stitch or bolt head as it makes the model 1...heavy and 2...you will have spent so much time on building it that you won't want to fly it for fear of crashing it. If the model doesn't have ailerons, then perhaps you should consider adding them...and being an older model, I suppose it doesn't....EV / D V111 models I have read about usually are not too much fun to fly without ailerons ( funny things happen in the turns ) :eek:
Mine flies ok, ( ailerons) but was a little finnicky to get the C/G right on. It seems to be very sensitive to C/G movement even small ones.
It is a great looking model though. I designed and built a 1/5 scale one some years ago, and liked it so much that I did it last year in 1/4 scale.
Mostly guys who see it fly...and the very few I've let have the sticks comment on how it really isn't as wicked as the one they had, or flew a couple times.....I'm thinking as a small model, it might be a little touchy.
Did a couple smaller ones many years ago, and they weren't very successful...they were designed by well known modelers too.
The main thing is keep it light and if it looks like what it's supposed to be when it's flying, it's a " scale " model. If it's kept as light as possible, you have a much better chance of success as it will fly better.
You will find the guys here helpful where they have expertise and they are very willing to share it with everyone. Hope the build is as much fun for you as they are for the rest of us.

scalercflyer 12-19-2006 03:07 AM

There you go again Guys!
 
If I could strangle you, Ron and Steve, I would! :mad: Imagine! More RED planes! :mad: :mad: The very thought makes me sick! You Guys should be encouraging the newbies to try another camo scheme besides RED! :D No imagination I say! :eek: Red D go for it! Just promise to keep us informed of the build. As Steve said I have tons of reference materials to research that NON-RED aircraft you are building. :D The kits Steve was referring to are Ben Buckle Fokker DVIIIs made in the 80s (sse below). I'm waiting on mine so I can do a simultaneous build with Steve (get off your tail Steve!). I also have started a 69" WS Fokker DVIII from MA plans. Yeah Yeah I know.... I owe you 2 Guys some plans... it's just that they keep slipping my mind! I must be getting old! One of these days!
http://www.benbucklevintage.com/shop..._DVIII_MED.jpgMartin

reddevil1111 12-19-2006 05:44 AM

nice job on your D-VIII !
 
Martin,
I love that color scheme! I am thinking if doing this Earl Sthal kit as a fun scale not trying to make a ton of improvements to a 1941 kit. I am clueless as to how I am going to make the wing removable ...the kit is shown with a spar/rubberband combo to hold it together... SEE? there I go wanting scale...lol
I just need to get this one done, find a more scale kit and go forward. I see a Ben kit is on ebay for only 51 usd currently....hmmmm....I am a fan of bigger kits like 1/4 and 1/3 scale....maybe a busa kit or maybe I can get a Glenn Torrance kit if my wife dosent see the cost...lol (yeah an hell is gettin cold...lol)
Any tips on building you would like to share I am ALWAYS a sponge...pm me photos if you can. Thanks, Dan

reddevil1111 12-19-2006 05:58 AM

Did I mention my wife is from Jersey? (I hope that explains a lot) I am thinking about doing losenge on the fuse and underside of the wing. And doing a black and white stripe on the rest.
Another color might be a silver blue all over with circles of different colors all over. with an all white tail.
or green tail with losenge everywhere else (a racing green color)
This is all so far down the road that I should have a few more weeks to think about it( I build rather quickly...or, I used to...lol)
I have a birthday(today)and my daughters is the 22nd then xmas and new year...then I will become a builder again I should think...but you never know..maybe sooner.
I need a cowl for 1/6 scale. Does anyone have a spare? or a mold for making one where I dont have to pay 40 plus dollars for a stupid cowl? Its enough frustration that I want to buy some aluminum and make one myself! (would not be pretty) lol

50+AirYears 12-19-2006 02:17 PM

There are many more color schemes than just red and the lozenge pattern for German WW I planes. There are many sources of documentation showing various color schemes used on these planes. Many of the squadrons had their own schemes, plus many pilots customized their planes.


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