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-   -   Helping People Learn to Fly (https://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5767)

Hyyperion 12-27-2015 05:11 AM

Couple of question...
 
Hey, just registered yesterday . I have a couple of question if you guys don't mind answering. I hope the answers are easy too.

What do I look for when matching a motor with the ESC with the battery?

How can I get more flying time?

What source is good for learning about Watts, Volts, and Amps, their relation to each other. Increasing one will do what. Too much of something will do what?

Thank you.

AEAJR 12-27-2015 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by Hyyperion (Post 986502)
Hey, just registered yesterday . I have a couple of question if you guys don't mind answering. I hope the answers are easy too.

What do I look for when matching a motor with the ESC with the battery?

How can I get more flying time?

What source is good for learning about Watts, Volts, and Amps, their relation to each other. Increasing one will do what. Too much of something will do what?

Thank you.

Happy to answer but this is not the place for this question. how to pick motors is not really related to how to teach people to fly and I would not want to side track this thread that far off topic.

The thread/book below would be a far better place to post this question AND it is one of the sources that answers your question about where to go to learn about such things. So I invite you to repost your question there.

EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT ELECTRIC POWERED FLIGHT
www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31368

GunnyJeeves 01-28-2016 03:14 AM

I have a technique to share... It worked on my daughter, as well as a couple nephews and such...

It's a very very old school approach... Possible only with very aggressive new school airframes though.

Goes like this:

1. First plane - trainer? No. 3D profile foamy, ideally EPP. (Crack Yak, Griffwerks, etc)
2. Use actual 3D (aka insane) throws.
3. Practice this move. The elevator. (Pull both sticks straight down and hold em) yep that's it!

Now when you fly, go straight up, no control just throttle... Then try to fly around... If you get confused, "Elevator". The plane will flip perfectly level, and start floating down. Right side up? Knife edge? In a tumble? You do an elevator and it will float down perfectly level and graceful. You get your orientation back, go back up and fly more...

What's so dang good about that approach? You don't ever learn the bad habit of over controlling that comes from a trainer that corners like a pregnant elephant... And when you're done, you can fly about anything.

Let me know how that works if anyone tries it. It's mind blowing the first time. Works in the sims too on profile foamies.

History: It's an old balsa and rubber band powered trick. A pin held the tail flat until the band pressure was exhausted... Then the elevator would pop up virtually 90 degrees.. The balsa plane would float to the ground. You can actually land like that and never do damage.

fhhuber 01-28-2016 03:42 AM

Only if the plane is light enough...

GunnyJeeves 01-28-2016 04:20 AM


Originally Posted by fhhuber (Post 988962)
Only if the plane is light enough...

Correct! That method uses a profile foam 3D airframe.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vI6tnmpwDQ[/media]

F22trainer 04-26-2017 05:21 AM

Looking forward...
 
1 Attachment(s)
Thought I would use this thread to make my intro...
Not new to RC, but mostly flew gliders due to the mess and equipment for gas. Began to experiment with electric back in the early 90's but just didn't get as much enjoyment as my Gentle Lady. Also had a Sophisticated Lady with electric power pod - fun, but still was half the fun of the hi-start sister.
Anyway, now a professional pilot and flight instructor for an exclusive US aircraft manufacturer I went right to this thread as I enjoy teaching and rare is the chance I get to be the student. But hearing the thoughts expressed in this thread shows the same dedication instructors encourage throughout the GA and Professional aviation markets.
Encouarage any interest, if you don't know - say so and ask or look someplace for the answer, and flying the airplane is only a small part of a very broad plan.
I am looking forward to my next trip to a local field (RC) soon to get help with my electric Taylorcraft, scratch built from an old Comet kit and converted for electric RC and a few others that are in progress or dusted off.

GunnyJeeves 04-26-2017 06:32 PM


Originally Posted by F22trainer (Post 1005534)
Thought I would use this thread to make my intro...
Not new to RC, but mostly flew gliders due to the mess and equipment for gas. Began to experiment with electric back in the early 90's but just didn't get as much enjoyment as my Gentle Lady. Also had a Sophisticated Lady with electric power pod - fun, but still was half the fun of the hi-start sister.
Anyway, now a professional pilot and flight instructor for an exclusive US aircraft manufacturer I went right to this thread as I enjoy teaching and rare is the chance I get to be the student. But hearing the thoughts expressed in this thread shows the same dedication instructors encourage throughout the GA and Professional aviation markets.
Encouarage any interest, if you don't know - say so and ask or look someplace for the answer, and flying the airplane is only a small part of a very broad plan.
I am looking forward to my next trip to a local field (RC) soon to get help with my electric Taylorcraft, scratch built from an old Comet kit and converted for electric RC and a few others that are in progress or dusted off.

Thanks!

This particular trick requires 3D rates on elevator at least.

If you set this up on a Taylorcraft, you would need to try to get the elevator at 100% travel to be able to hit about a 45 degree angle at least. (60 degree is preferred).

To make it still flyable, you can set rates low, and add a rescue mix that drives the servo to 100% and ideally, cuts throttle. This will right the plane immediately and you can recover it. (Flying those I know you're not normally adjusting throttle much... but it's critical to drop throttle to use an elevator move to re-level the plane).

Glad this inspired you! Good luck!

AEAJR 04-27-2017 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by GunnyJeeves (Post 1005543)
Thanks!

This particular trick requires 3D rates on elevator at least.

If you set this up on a Taylorcraft, you would need to try to get the elevator at 100% travel to be able to hit about a 45 degree angle at least. (60 degree is preferred).

To make it still flyable, you can set rates low, and add a rescue mix that drives the servo to 100% and ideally, cuts throttle. This will right the plane immediately and you can recover it. (Flying those I know you're not normally adjusting throttle much... but it's critical to drop throttle to use an elevator move to re-level the plane).

Glad this inspired you! Good luck!

I don't see any posts referencing your post suggesting that we train new pilots based on 3D tricks. While this is not an approach I would endorse if it works for your students, great.

Are you suggesting that the video is of a new, first time pilot flying this plane? Seems unlikely to me.

GunnyJeeves 04-28-2017 07:05 AM

Oh.. no, sorry...

The video is of my daughter. But the trick works for a brand new pilot, and starting with a 3 D plane, they learn very quickly not to overcontrol.

This gives a novice a quick recovery option on a 3D plane. It works well. Just about anyone can learn to fly quickly this way. Fly up, goof around, elevator if you get confused... you can even land like that with a 3D plane.

AEAJR 04-28-2017 02:58 PM

Thanks for the clarification.

Emilinoz 02-02-2018 12:20 AM

Would just like to add a few things wich helped me when i first learnt to fly. Ok your at your fav field/oval etc,Firstly i stand say half way on the outside so i can draw a imaginary line to split the field in half,then i square off the field,makeing sure that when i want to land the planes nose is going into the wind. Before i take off make a mental note that Height is Your friend.Take a few deep breaths and try to be calm-take off and gain some Height, We call it 3 mistakes High-300ft at least now once you have the plane pointing into the wind -Throttel Back to at least Half, now trim the plane and slowly do some curcuits of your field-No stunts or tricks at this stage,concentrate on your stick movements and gain confidence. Its Important to maintain a safe height at all times,dont come down any lower than 200 ft,stay high is best until you fully get the feel of the plane.Now to Land,we call this the finals,remember when you squared off your field,and make sure the plane is pointing into the wind,bring the plane towards the edge of the field,now throttel back and the nose will drop,at this stage your thumb should be applying very small amounts of UP elevator,the plane should have a nose up attitude-Keeps your wings straught-no sudden movements-nice and easy,let the plane sink by itself,once you have bothwheels on the ground let the plane roll and steer it straught. Now take a deep breath and Relax. It sounds complicated and a lot to remember,how evr if you have a simulatar practice,practice. I cant stress enough to always remember Height is your friend.I have myself and have seen it so many times,beginners get themselves into trouble flying too Low and forgeting to Throttel back, I was Taught the old 3 mistakes high method and still stick to the same rules,my flying ability has improved,i feel relaxed now when flying and another Golden Rule is To Not Panic,teach yourself also if you a aproaching to land and you are too high-Throtell up and go around for another approach-it works and saves a lot of crashed planes.I Hope you get something from this and ime qite happy to lend my advice to any Beginners, Emil.

F22trainer 02-02-2018 02:11 AM

While it did not take long, it did take help...
 
Refurbished a 3 channel trainer, joined a club and sought out a capable and respected instructor.
He helped me get it in the air, refresh my thumb skills, and find a few weak spots in the vintage airframe without a crash. After a few weekends and a few minor repairs the trainer not only looked new it was all dialed in for trim and ready for my solo. Since it was not the first time I've flown R/C and felt comfortable flying it, I committed to takeoff, let it climb and flew around the pattern for 5 minutes. On down wind I called "landing", lined up on final settled into ground effect at 1/4 throttle and just let it land...on the centerline, and as I taxi to the deadline 2 of the member who were watching say "great landing". When I said that was kind of my solo, I got some applause and cheers as more had heard me. Decided to change the battery and go again with same results - but minus the cheers.
And then, after asking another member (my instructor was ill and down with flu) I got some assistance with checking my new Carbon Cub for her maiden. He asked all the right questions before lining up and he reassured me I could do this and be fine- just do the same thing I had done with the trainer.
Got 2 flights and both went home in one piece. That was about a month ago and since then I am reasonably comfortable with both planes, but here's the clincher.
AS3X and SAFE technology. Getting comfortable with the 3 channel trainer and then with Carbon Cub / SAFE modes, 4 channel skills were an easy adjustment. So, as I mentioned in other posts this is not my first entry or attempt to fly R/C but rather a return after a 25year hiatus.
This stuff is fun and I will stick with it for a long time, Lord wiling and the creek don't rise.
If you are new - get help, use a simulator to get some basics of controlled flight mastered with respect to visual orientation, find an instructor, and guess what - the technology is making it easier to learn. So many more options and resources than when I first taught myself in the late 80's.
Go for it! It is a blast...

jeholliday 02-02-2018 04:21 AM

You say get an instructor. When my son and I decided we wanted to fly RC I went to the local field for help. Seems one of the guys there used to fly CL with us and went full RC. He helped me a little on the first flight and told us about the club. So we attended a meeting and joined. We were assigned an instructor. He was never available when we were for some reason. Finally one of the older gents took us under his wing as such. Once I soloed it was no problem helping my son as he was about to give up. I became an instructor the next year and have lost count how many students I soloed because their assigned instructor was not available. I have not flown an RC plane for few years but the last time I flew was after not fly RC for about a decade. The field I was at that time didn't even offer to help when I told them it had been a while. Need less tp say the plane was out of trim by a bunch even though I thought I had it checked out pretty good on the ground. I managed to get some altitude and started working on trimming. After getting the plane tamed down I lined up for landing and brought it in. After a couple of years it got boring again even with an aerobatic plane that could do any thing I wanted. Guess I need to dust it off and go fly again.

F22trainer 02-02-2018 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by jeholliday (Post 1011298)
I became an instructor the next year and have lost count how many students I soloed because their assigned instructor was not available.

Good help is hard to find, but kudos for stepping up when you had the ability. Many have had the same problem learning full size.

Emilinoz 02-16-2018 12:21 PM

Another Very Good Flying Tip is something that most of us dont even think of when we venture out to the flying field is, now we all should know by now that you take off into the wind and land into the wind-Right, so you get set and take off into the wind,plane gets up off the horizon then Bam! The sun hits your eyes like a laser and dazzles you,you may lose track of your plane and by that time its too late.Always fly with your back to the sun,i know ive learnt my lesson once and always check every time,its something we dont even think of until its too late, I lost a Beautiful SBACH one evening on take off,she went straught into the sun and then it was gone.

fliers1 11-17-2018 01:46 PM

I'm still using a Sig EP-42 for training. I'm so sorry that Sig quit importing that great trainer. For the most part all that is left are foam electric trainers.


In my area, a new YMCA recently opened. I asked if I could volunteer my time to create a flight instruction class for indoors and out doors. There is a 10 plus acre open area in back of the Y. I sent an email and they are open to the idea.


I plan on starting the program in January 2019, if not sooner. I can train in the gym using Horizon Vapors, which are quite safe and are easy to fly.

Also, I plan on giving flight training on a simulator and hopefully on a large screen tv. That way I can train all year around and not have to wait for good weather.


https://www.lockportjournal.com/news...0ee72e08d.html

jeholliday 11-17-2018 04:12 PM

fliers1, I hope it works for you and you get some adults to help also.

fliers1 11-17-2018 05:01 PM


Originally Posted by jeholliday (Post 1015786)
fliers1, I hope it works for you and you get some adults to help also.


That is exactly part of my plan. Along with the kids, I will be teaching adults to learn how to fly and become instructors. They will be able to practice flying and teaching during the winter and all year around.

I've already got some of the Y's employees very much interested.
One of the directors works with a half dozen schools for other endeavors.
Looks good so far.

Rabbitcreekok 11-18-2018 06:08 AM

Great idea, fliers1. In what part of the country do you live? I did a aviation camp with the local Boys and Girls Club. We helped the kids build gliders, had come contests, built some paper planes, had some contests. We did it over four week, one night a week. We required the parents to be there to help the kids.


It was much enjoyed, but we just could not generate enough interest to continue the Camp. We did fly in the gym they had, which had 4 basketball courts side by side. We could fly a little larger models there. But again, interest went away. Oh well, we tried.


I hope your program works great and generates a lot of interest.


I also did some programs for schools in the gym where I flew some micros and helis. That is a lot of fun and the kids had a lot of questions.


I tell you all this just to give you ideas.

fliers1 11-18-2018 12:03 PM


Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok (Post 1015798)
Great idea, fliers1. In what part of the country do you live? I did a aviation camp with the local Boys and Girls Club. We helped the kids build gliders, had come contests, built some paper planes, had some contests. We did it over four week, one night a week. We required the parents to be there to help the kids.


It was much enjoyed, but we just could not generate enough interest to continue the Camp. We did fly in the gym they had, which had 4 basketball courts side by side. We could fly a little larger models there. But again, interest went away. Oh well, we tried.


I hope your program works great and generates a lot of interest.


I also did some programs for schools in the gym where I flew some micros and helis. That is a lot of fun and the kids had a lot of questions.


I tell you all this just to give you ideas.


I live 20 miles north of Buffalo, NY.

We tried he paper and rubber powered airplane program also didn't grab much interest. Also, the local clubs tried building simple foam RC airplanes in local schools which also failed to gain any interest.


When I was with the clubs, I had teachers and kids fly my EP-42 in the back of the schools. But for some reason, club members quit contacting me

and they went their own. After that, the program fizzled.



We had one school that had tons of money to play with, in fact they had enough equipment to literally manufacturer airplanes if they wanted to.


I found that people actually get much more out of the hobby is they are able to get hands-on RC flying experience and if they are certain to have someone give flight instruction at their convenience, they will stick with it for very long periods.



I will be giving hands-on indoor and outdoor RC flight instruction all winter and during spring and summer. Plus hands-on instruction via simulators.



Matter of fact, I think it would be a good idea for clubs to provide buddy-box training indoors using simulators all year around.

fliers1 11-18-2018 06:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Teaching teachers

jeholliday 11-18-2018 11:36 PM

I think that is the problem. Competition. Many years ago when flying control line for fun at the local circle we had new people showing up almost every week. Even some father/son combos. Then it was suggested to a simple contest of some sort. the people disappeared and never came back. Look at some of the free flight fun fly videos. Lots of people flying some weird free flight designs for fun.

Rabbitcreekok 11-19-2018 03:59 AM

fliers1, just keep trying. I agree that the buddy box is great. The difficult part is getting them out to try. It is not a video game and they might miss out on some facebook post.


Keep us posted on how you are doing.

fliers1 11-19-2018 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok (Post 1015824)
fliers1, just keep trying. I agree that the buddy box is great. The difficult part is getting them out to try. It is not a video game and they might miss out on some facebook post.


Keep us posted on how you are doing.


I've been trying for over 40 years, but I keep running into a brick wall.
I've seen the writing on the wall for all that time, but I think so much of our great hobby that I see no alternative but to keep trying.


I used to use the buddy-box but found that it has its limitations, so I developed a way of teaching that works much better other than the buddy-box. I can have any student takeoff, fly very skillfully

and land on their first ever RC flying experience.





The late Dave Mathewson was personally aware of how well it worked, but I think he as well ran into a brick wall trying to get the industry aware of this method's potential.


Dave Mathewson's club


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