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Sport Planes (Formerly I/C & Gas Conversion) Discuss I/C or Gas Conversions, Aerobatic Planes and Sport Aircraft

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Old 11-03-2010, 07:22 AM   #1
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Default Hangar 9 Arrow 40

In recent weeks I went to the local clubs field to see what was going on. I had pretty much limited myself to 48" wingspan planes as I just wanted to keep the battery cost down. On more than one occasion I watched a guy flying Hangar 9 Cessna 40. This is a 63" high wing plane with a semi symmetrical wing. It must be my age or something but I just love this size high wing plane. You can really see the thing and it seems to have a lot of capability. I am not thrilled with the finish of this rather inexpensive plane with its pre printed PVC covering. In searching around I found that Hangar 9 had another plane very similar, the Arrow 40, that seemed to be a bit higher quality with UltraCote covering. Unfortunately Both are now discontinued and not in stock at HH. Several web sites had it listed but on inquiring there were none in stock. It took me some time to find one of these discontinued models but I finally have one on the way.

I thought of just going glow as I could get it in the air for a little less money but I really want to go electric. The Alpha 40 is very similar but with a flat bottom wing and the recommended power is a Power 25 with 4 cell 3200mAh battery. This surprises me since they recommend a 40 or 46 glow engine. The Arrow specs say 36-46 glow.

Arrow 40

Wingspan: 63 in
Overall Length: 52.5 in
Wing Area: 710 sq in
Flying Weight: 5.7 lb
Engine Size: .36 - .46 (2-stroke), .45 - .72 (4-stroke)


Using numbers from Hangar 9 I came up with the following wing loadings.

Arrow 40:

4.93 sqft - 5.7 Lb (91.2 oz) - 18.5 oz/sqft

Alpha 40:

4.93 sqft - 5.5 Lb (88 oz) - 17.85 oz/sqft - Recommended electric, Power 25 W/ 3200mAh 4 cell

Pulse XT 40:

4.63 sqft - 6.25 lb (100 oz) - 21.6 oz/sqft - recommended electric, Power 46 W/ 4200 4 cell


So I'm wondering if a Power 32 with 4 cells would give adequate performance or should I go for the Power 46 setup?

I would appreciate anyones thoughts on this.

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Old 11-03-2010, 04:05 PM   #2
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Turner

I would think the Power 32 would work well for your Arrow. Will not be a 3d monster but probably never wouldbe with the wing shape etc. The 46 would work very well, obviously more power, but would add another 3 ounces to the nose.
I am just finishing an electric conversion on a Tower Trainer 40 I won in a raffle:

http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/towa1110.html

Looks very close to your Arrow, probably the same airframe with a few different decals.

I am using a Heads Up RC power set up that looks very close to your Power 32

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...lectric/Detail

Jeff Anderson, who owns Heads Up RC, did a conversion of a Tower Trainer 40 and has a couple pics on the motor website of his aircraft.

I am hoping to get mine in the air in the next week or so, depends on the weather etc

Good Luck with the conversion
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:28 PM   #3
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Look forward to hearing how your setup works out. The Tower Trainer was another plane on my list. I also have the 4248-08 on my list as well as the 4260-06. Are you going with a 4 cell battery?

One of the reasons I am looking at the 46 equivalent motors is because they are heavier. The .46 size glow engines recommended for this plane weigh in at 17-20 oz, nearly twice the weight of the 46 size electric motors.

I have plenty of time to decide on a power package so I think I will do some balance testing before deciding.

Thanks for the input. Let me know how your flights go.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
Look forward to hearing how your setup works out. The Tower Trainer was another plane on my list. I also have the 4248-08 on my list as well as the 4260-06. Are you going with a 4 cell battery?

One of the reasons I am looking at the 46 equivalent motors is because they are heavier. The .46 size glow engines recommended for this plane weigh in at 17-20 oz, nearly twice the weight of the 46 size electric motors.

I have plenty of time to decide on a power package so I think I will do some balance testing before deciding.

Thanks for the input. Let me know how your flights go.

I am looking forward to it as well

I am using a 4s 3200 battery at the moment, I am planning to buy at least one more and may go to a 4000 mAH just to get a little more flight time. The difference in weight is not so much that I should be unable to compensate by moving the battery position some to adjust the balance point.

Jeff mentioned that when he did his conversion, he cut a battery hatch in the bottom of the fuse in the nose, in part because he found he had to have the battery clear forward to the firewall to get his to balance. I have found on my model that I hit the balance point with the battery back from the firewall by a couple inches. Not sure what the difference is except I chose on this one to use a receiver battery pack rather than a UBEC. That extra battery pack is just forward of the speced cg/ Not enough that I would have expected it to make that much difference in the balance. In any case I did not cut the battery hatch, am just putting the battery in through the wing mount opening and putting the wing on afterward. I did cut some ventilation openings in the underside of the fuse, fore and aft.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:51 PM   #5
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Sounds good. The Arrow was delivered today and I am anxious to get a look at it. I'm hoping I can create a hatch on top ahead of the wing for easy battery access.
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:32 AM   #6
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Here are some photos of my Tower 40 Trainer. It has a bolt on wing and flaps. I have been flying it for a couple of years now.


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Old 11-04-2010, 04:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Henry Sistrunk View Post
Here are some photos of my Tower 40 Trainer. It has a bolt on wing and flaps. I have been flying it for a couple of years now.

I like the air scoop. I was trying to decide if I should do something like that or if just having the vents would give me enough air flow to keep the battery and ESC cool. Not much of an issue right now but might be different next summer

Looks like you are using a 3 s battery. What motor and prop are you using?
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Old 11-04-2010, 02:06 PM   #8
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That battery hatch looks good Henry. I'm going to try and do something like that.

In what seems to me to be a minor miracle the Arrow arrived without any damage. I have to give credit to fedex. If UPS had delivered it it surely would have been smashed to bits. The box really is not intended for shipping and offers little protection against crushing. Normally I would prefer to get an arf from the local hobby shop.

Very impressed with the quality of the Hangar 9 product. The wings, tail surfaces, and fuse all look straight and true. The covering is nicely done with hardly a wrinkle. Just a few on the tail surfaces and ailerons.

Wish I could dive right in and start fitting it out with a flight package but it will have to wait a while.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:41 PM   #9
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Default Tower Trainer 40

Hi Guys, I posted those photos to show someone how I did the battery hatch. I use that Tower 40 and my Tower 60 as test beds for motor, prop, and battery combinations. I usually power the 40 with 4 cell 4000 Mah batterys and the 60 with 6 cell 5000 Mah's. Both planes have been modified with bolt on wings and flaps. Both are really great for lazy afternoon flying.
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Old 11-05-2010, 06:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
Look forward to hearing how your setup works out. The Tower Trainer was another plane on my list. I also have the 4248-08 on my list as well as the 4260-06. Are you going with a 4 cell battery?

One of the reasons I am looking at the 46 equivalent motors is because they are heavier. The .46 size glow engines recommended for this plane weigh in at 17-20 oz, nearly twice the weight of the 46 size electric motors.

I have plenty of time to decide on a power package so I think I will do some balance testing before deciding.

Thanks for the input. Let me know how your flights go.

I used the 4260-06 with 13x6.5e prop 70A esc and 4S 4200 mah...i think it is like 6.5 lbs thrust and weight was about what a .46 glowsystem would be. i think the power output is considered closer to .52 glow.

i'd rather have more battery or more thrust in reserve than lead to balance a lighter setup. some of the glow planes using suggested engines even end up a little tail heavy from what i hear.

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Old 11-06-2010, 03:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by texasclouds View Post
...i'd rather have more battery or more thrust in reserve than lead to balance a lighter setup. some of the glow planes using suggested engines even end up a little tail heavy from what i hear.
That's what I was thinking. Did you find that a 70 amp ESC was necessary? How much current does it pull with the setup you describe. I notice a lot of equivalent motors go up to a 6mm shaft. Are there any concerns with the 5mm shaft in this size motor?
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:29 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Henry Sistrunk View Post
Hi Guys, I posted those photos to show someone how I did the battery hatch. I use that Tower 40 and my Tower 60 as test beds for motor, prop, and battery combinations. I usually power the 40 with 4 cell 4000 Mah batterys and the 60 with 6 cell 5000 Mah's. Both planes have been modified with bolt on wings and flaps. Both are really great for lazy afternoon flying.
Henry
What kind of flight times are you getting with the 4S 4000? In the picture you have a 3S 4500. Does a three cell give adequate performance?
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Old 11-06-2010, 04:27 PM   #13
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Three cells were fine but 4 makes it a powerhouse. I time all of my flights and fly between 12 and 15 minutes. That lets me land with plenty of capacity left in the battery.
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:59 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
That's what I was thinking. Did you find that a 70 amp ESC was necessary? How much current does it pull with the setup you describe. I notice a lot of equivalent motors go up to a 6mm shaft. Are there any concerns with the 5mm shaft in this size motor?

um yeah, I did find it neccessarry. my 60Amp exceed rc unit from hobbypartz burst into flames at taxi test. i think it may have has something wrong with it though. HP wouldn't give me any discount on a second unit so i dusted off my feet and won't be buying from them again. i yanked it out of the plane while still aflame....only have some black smoke marks in the fuselage.

the 70a does get warm when I pull over 850 watts...but not hot.

i don't use that shaft...it comes with a bolt-on aluminum prop adapter...that is what I use.

i love the motor though. the hacker 70a is ok. if I bought again for this motor I would get the castle ICE 75A. it has a nice looking heat sink and a powerful switch bec.

i bought the hacker for $70 used...they are $130 new. castle ice is like $100.

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Old 11-08-2010, 05:07 AM   #15
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Thanks for that Texas Clouds. Any experience or thoughts on the Power Up 70 ESC from Heads Up RC? I know it has no BEC. That doesn't bother me. I will probably use a receiver pack.
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Old 11-08-2010, 01:37 PM   #16
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Default Power Up 70 amp esc

I am using these on my smaller airplanes. They work really well but notice that they are only good for 70 amps when used with up to 3 cells. I do not use a separate receiver battery as this has to be checked and charged regularly. I use a UBEC from Heads Up and that is much simpler than an extra battery.
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Old 11-08-2010, 03:51 PM   #17
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Hey, Thanks for that. Has anyone ever measured how many mAh the Rx and standard servos use during a typical flight?
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
Hey, Thanks for that. Has anyone ever measured how many mAh the Rx and standard servos use during a typical flight?
I haven,t. Never really had a need to. I use as many as 6 standard servos on some of my planes and with the UBEC have never had a problem. At one time, on my Contender with 5 servos, I used a separate battery for the flight pack, but found no advantage and only more trouble than it was worth.
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:17 PM   #19
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With the receiver pack, how many flights could you do on one charge?
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:50 PM   #20
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I really don't know. The large pack would last for days and the small pack for a day or more. I had a Volt Watch in the cockpit so that when I turned the switch on I would see the charge condition of the pack. The whole "mess' wasn't worth while.


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Old 11-08-2010, 06:11 PM   #21
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Okay thanks. Not sure why but a separate Rx pack appeals to me for some reason on a bigger plane.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:16 PM   #22
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There are pros and cons to each. Some people drive Chevrolets, some drive Fords. It's a matter of preference.


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Old 11-08-2010, 07:27 PM   #23
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You're not that far from me Henry. We'll have to meet sometime.

What motors are you using in your different planes?
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:37 PM   #24
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Rimfire 120
Rimfire 80
Rimfire 60
Rimfire 46
Rimfire 32
Rimfire 25
Rimfire 28-30-1450
Rimfire 28-30-950
Park 450
Power 25
Monster Power 46
Monster Power 60
G Force 60
Heads Up 480
Heads Up 4238-08
I think that's about it.
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