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Hi-Performance and Sailplanes RC hotliners, electric pylon racers, F5B, F5D, sailplanes and gliders

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Old 04-23-2010, 10:14 AM   #1
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Default Quickie 500 racer, need help!

quickie 500 conversion?
I want to compete with the glow boys on thier turf with an electric version of thier quickie planes, but I'm not sure what motor esc to use. There are a few other threads on the subject, but they date back to 2008, I need current info.
Here's the facts
Plane- Great Planes viper http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1265.html
Weight rtf should be around 4.5#
Top speed needs to be around 120 -130mph in the straights
Race time 2.5-3 minutes (3.5 min. run time should be plenty)
I'm thinking a 4 cell lipo, 8x8 prop, or 5 cell on 10x8
about 850-1200 watt system for this plane should be good.
I just need help finding the right motor esc combo to compete and win.
Thanks !!!
These cocky slimer pilots are starting to tick me off! I need to knock them down a notch or two.

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Old 04-24-2010, 08:18 AM   #2
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Default Cocky Slimers

These cocky slimer pilots are starting to tick me off! I need to knock them down a notch or two.
If that is your goal then start thinking about 160mph + . 130 mph will not do it.

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Old 04-24-2010, 08:43 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Ed Smith View Post
If that is your goal then start thinking about 160mph + . 130 mph will not do it.

Ed S
I'm just going by what the Q-500 guys told me, but maybe they told me this so I would be slower.
Are you a Q-500 pilot?
If you have any sugestions, they would be more than welcome.
I posted on rcgroups, and have gotten some good ideas, but I want to be sure on the set up before I drop this much cash.

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Old 04-24-2010, 09:35 AM   #4
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I know zip about Quickie 500 racing but the spec on the great planes site says 3-3.4lb for all up weight with an i.c. engine. If your electric model is going to come in close to 4.5lb then competing with the 'slimers' is going to be tough/impossible. You might match them in the straights but carrying an extra lb of weight you aint going to get round the corners anywhere like as quick as they are.

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Old 04-24-2010, 09:46 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I know zip about Quickie 500 racing but the spec on the great planes site says 3-3.4lb for all up weight with an i.c. engine. If your electric model is going to come in close to 4.5lb then competing with the 'slimers' is going to be tough/impossible. You might match them in the straights but carrying an extra lb of weight you aint going to get round the corners anywhere like as quick as they are.

Steve
I'm just speculating on the weight. I figure with 4 cell 3000 to 4000 size pack, and the motor size, I will be heavier than the slimers, but I'm not sure by how much.

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Old 04-24-2010, 01:26 PM   #6
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Default Q500

Are you a Q-500 pilot?
If you have any sugestions, they would be more than welcome.
Yes,

To be competitive in Q500, (AMA 428).

Airplane weight 3.75# max.
Race time on 428, 3 pole course, 1min, 10 secs absolute max. 1.06 is the norm.

To convert to electric. Remove the engine and tank, that is about a pound in weight. Replace with motor, ESC and battery. I do not know enough about electric flight to quote the weight of those items.

I would strongly recommend to use a seperate battery for the radio and not to rely on a BEC in the speed control.

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Old 04-24-2010, 01:41 PM   #7
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Brett here is a pylon racer with landing gear made for electric. I wonder if it could be made hot enough to compete?

http://www.stevensaero.com/StevensAe...0-p-18856.html


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Old 04-24-2010, 07:23 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
Brett here is a pylon racer with landing gear made for electric. I wonder if it could be made hot enough to compete?

http://www.stevensaero.com/StevensAe...0-p-18856.html

this must be old it says brushed motor ha ha, maybe that would be good, I also have a Q-500 I love to go E with it sometime but trying to find what motor and set up is hard. there is a thread on RCG about them but not to much info most go with the cheap knock off motors and seem to like them. my Q-500 with 40 webra tune pipe was about 120 love to go 100 or more with it electric,

here is one of the videos from one but not the one i was looking for


Oh i read specs again its lot smaller lighter then a Q-500 is. but would be fun for a smaller version

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Old 04-25-2010, 05:20 AM   #9
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I was thinking more along the lines of a Don's Wicked on a 4S 1800 (if it will fit?) swinging the APC 4.1x4.1. After checking out this thread I think it could work.

Even if your top speed wasn't as fast I would think the lighter weight would give you the advantage with quicker acceleration and better handling.

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Old 04-25-2010, 05:26 AM   #10
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I think better in the corners too....

Bruce
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:17 AM   #11
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You are going to need LOTs-O-WATTS to go over 100 on the plane you're looking at at 3 to 4 pounds

My 26 ounce F16 needed about 700 watts or so just to break 110 in level flight. Your plane is going to be close to double the weight and have a good bit more drag.

Lets say you decide to use an 1800 mahr 4S pack. If thats a 30C pack, you can get about 54 amps.

54 x 3.5 x 4 = 756 watts maximum you can get from those packs. That might get you to 100 mph or it may not. That is going to be pushing those small packs really hard. Not to mention your flight time, which will be 2 minutes at full throttle.

Lets assume for a minute that 756 watts will get you to 100 mph.

Then lets say you want to go 130 mph. You are going to need a minimum of 1660 watts.

If you want to break 160 you will need a minimum of 3096 watts.

No way will small packs do that.

Hi speeds require hi power which means beefy battery packs.

I think I need a signature.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:21 AM   #12
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One more note - you can probably get by with a little less power to break 100 mph than I needed. You are running a prop which s more efficient than the ducted fan I was using.

Still gonna need bunches-a-watts

I think I need a signature.
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:41 AM   #13
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this might help you out

NAME: sbchero
SPEED: 154 MPH
PLANE: Parkzone p51 BL
MOTOR: Scorpion HK-3026-1400KV ********************** 199 Grams
ESC: Turnigy 80Amp ***************************************91 Grams
BATTERY; 5s 2650mah 40C Flight Max Lipo***************398 Grams
PROP: APC 8x8

*************************************************A bout ***688 gram = 1.516 780 363 8 lb, lbs


and check out the motor combinations on this thread
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26852

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Old 04-25-2010, 08:54 AM   #14
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and you might want to try this motor with a 6.5 x 6.5 apc prop on 6 cells, about 1600 to 1800 Watts or more
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...s_Motor_1450kv

Customer Rated 3/5/2010
Customer |
this motor screems, with a 2650mah 6 cell and a 6.5x6.5 pylon racer prop and a hk 90-100amp esc i hit 160mph!!, epp scratchbuilt plane, cheep, fast, fun, this motor is awesome!!


Customer Rated
epyblast |
Some data about this motor:

6S LiPo - 7x5 prop = 90A.
6S LiPo - 9x7.5 prop = 150A. (be careful with this!!!!)

Customer Rated
Customer |
This Motor is a Beast!! Hit 146mph in FunJet with APC 7x6 Sport Prop, HobbyKing 90/100amp esc and Zippy Flightmax 2200mAh 40c 5s1p LiPo Battery. Watt Meter Static test 92amps@1597watts!!! No issues so far. Will definitely get more when they are back in stock!! Thanks HK for the Awesome Deals!!!

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Old 04-25-2010, 09:01 AM   #15
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Talking Go Fast and Turn Left

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...s_Motor_1450kv

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s..._(DE_Warehouse)

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...00mAh_6S1P_40C_

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LX1692&P=M

about 796 grams , 796 gram = 1.754 879 607 lb, lbs

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Old 04-25-2010, 09:25 AM   #16
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It's easy to under estimate the power and hardware you will need to be competitive in this class. if you want to be competitive with I.C. power models then you need to aim to get close to them in both power and weight

As noted above a typical IC installation comes in about 1 lb (about 450g). A hot .40 size I.C. engine will produce about 1.6 HP converting to watts = 1200W.

Lets assume 6 cells (22.2V): 1200/22.2 = 54A.. so you need a 6 cell battery capable of 55A.
For a 2 minute run you cant exceed 30C so our battery needs to be at least 1833mah, 6cell, 30C, I'd say 2000mah practical minimum to allow some margin for error.

If you went with 5 cells then you would need 65A and a 2500mah battery. 4 cells needs 81A and 3000mah

Battery alone will weigh about 400g

ESC good = 90g -100g

Motor capable of about 1200W = +/- 250g

Total weight = +/- 750g... thats 300g heavier than the I.C installation.

So it's gonna be very hard to produce an electric power Quickie 500 model that will match the I.C. 's for both power and weight. I think you probably need to go in with a bit less power, maybe 1000W and reduce the weight down to similar to the 'slimers'.. Hopefully the aerodynamic advantages of not having a big engine and silencer hanging in the breeze will make up for the loss of a couple of hundred watts.

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Old 04-25-2010, 11:31 AM   #17
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New info: They gave me a new rule today. Everyone has to run a 9x6 prop.
Not sure it will even be posible with a 9x6.
I did find out that they can only run stock mufflers, no pipes. Also the weight rule is that the weight can be no less than 2.5#, but no upper weight limit.
I thank all of you for your help!
Larry, I know of your big builds, and you probably know more about big power requirements, than most. What if we started with the 9x6 prop Then figured the RPM that would give us 125mph, then worked backwards from there to figure what motor/batt set up would give us that RPM?

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Old 04-25-2010, 01:47 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by surfer dude View Post
New info: They gave me a new rule today. Everyone has to run a 9x6 prop.
Not sure it will even be posible with a 9x6.
I did find out that they can only run stock mufflers, no pipes. Also the weight rule is that the weight can be no less than 2.5#, but no upper weight limit.
I thank all of you for your help!
Larry, I know of your big builds, and you probably know more about big power requirements, than most. What if we started with the 9x6 prop Then figured the RPM that would give us 125mph, then worked backwards from there to figure what motor/batt set up would give us that RPM?
Thats the way to go at this point. I'll run some rough numbers later when Im awake

I think I need a signature.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:39 PM   #19
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At 125mph a 6" pitch prop will at pitch speed when turning at 22,000rpm. To still be making thrust at 125mph you need more rpm than this, say 25,000 ...

Seems higher than any stock I.C engine would spin at?

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Old 04-25-2010, 08:13 PM   #20
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These cocky slimer pilots are starting to tick me off! I need to knock them down a notch or two.
I am still waiting!

Ed s
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ed Smith View Post
I am still waiting!

Ed s

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Old 04-25-2010, 11:57 PM   #22
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Ok lets see here 9x6 prop, 1450 KV motor , 5 cell lipo 18.5volts, = 152.41Mph - about 5% slip about 144.5 MPH
9x6 prop, 1450 kv motor ,6 cell lipo 22.5 volts = 182.90 Mph - 5% slip about 173 Mph (use with extreme caution )

epyblast |
Some data about this motor:

6S LiPo - 7x5 prop = 90A.
6S LiPo - 9x7.5 prop = 150A. (be careful with this!!!!)

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...s_Motor_1450kv



http://www.rcpro.org/rccalc/PitchSpeed.aspx

Pitch Speed Calculator

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Old 04-26-2010, 01:50 AM   #23
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As I understand it the Kv rating for brushless motors is in a "No Load" state.

Put a prop on the front and the figures change drastically.

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Old 04-26-2010, 02:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ed Smith View Post
Yes,

To be competitive in Q500, (AMA 428).

Airplane weight 3.75# max.
Race time on 428, 3 pole course, 1min, 10 secs absolute max. 1.06 is the norm.



Ed S

What are the times and specs for 424 Ed, as that would seem to be the class he's up against?
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:36 AM   #25
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What are the times and specs for 424 Ed, as that would seem to be the class he's up against?
In AMA 424 the airframe weight and size is the same as 428. Composite wings and tails are not allowed. the engine of choice (Not by rule) is the Thunder Tiger .40 Pro. The only prop allowed is an APC 9x6 supplied by the contest.

Engine rpm app 16k

Speed app. 110 mph

Race time app. 1.30 +/-

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