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Old 09-11-2016, 08:04 PM   #1
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Default Hobby King Zlin Z50L 70 class with E-Power

As many of you know - I have a love-affair with this model. I have been flying this with 15cc Gasoline engine up front.

A while back when I crashed the model - sometimes we just do stupid things and the plastic bag is needed to collect the bits. She has been rebuilt twice and now starting to look rough ... suffers cracks and failures that are hidden and fatigue sets in.

I have a new unbuilt Zlin in box and decided that for convenience I would give her e-Power.

Details of the model :



Specs:
Wingspan: 1612mm
Length: 1403mm
Dry Weight: 1672g
Flying Weight: 2350g
Wing Area: 46.4dm2
Requires:
Your own 4~6 Channel TX/RX
4~5 standard Servos
50mm Brushless Outrunner Motor or 0.70 glow engine
3300mAh~4500 5s Lipoly Battery
70mm Spinner
60A ESC
RX Battery or UBEC

The flying weight is incorrect, I have mine perfectly balanced without any extra lead at 3.1kgs
CoG at 120mm from LE at root.

So I have ordered a 5055 400kv Turnigy motor, 6S 3300 LiPo's, 80A ESC.

The big problem as I see it will be making sure the CoG comes in without adding too much weight.

I will return to this thread as things progress ....

Nigel

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Old 09-12-2016, 08:47 AM   #2
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On the 15cc engine at 9200rpm - she has unlimited vertical on a 15x4 prop. In fact she flies on less than half throttle ... she loops on about 60% ...

With the E-Power motor ... I am expecting to use a 15x8 or 15x10 prop ... where electric gives better low end use with ability to cut motor in flight.

I really do not know where HK get their "Flying Weight: 2350g" from ... my engine installation incl. tank, battery etc. is about 1kg ... makes the bare airframe in the region of 2 - 2.1kg anyway. Taking the 5055 as 300gr, my 5S 3000 pack as example 410gr, ESC 10gr, 4 servos 120gr .... puts all up at 2940gr before balancing. The 6S pack of course will be about 100gr heavier ... bring her to similar to my gasoline set-up.

I shall be using a 10A or more uBEC alongside the 80A ESC.

Servos :
Henge MD752 Digitals at 28gr and 6kg torque .... four of them.
Turnigy TGY-225MG at 26gr and 3.5kg torque ... one which is spare

The model calls for 4 servos .... Rud, Elev + 2 aileron.

Depending on the balance situation once completed - I may change to a dedicated Rx power supply such as a small 1700 2S LiFe pack weighing in at 92gr.

The beauty of the LiFe of course is charge up and forget till next charge time. It means virtually no voltage drop whatever load.

Radio of course will be my trusty 9xr with FrSky ....

One thing I have considered is possibly adding flap function to the main wing. I initially considered dividing the full span ailerons but given the neat finish and construction - discounted that. I think just a few degrees of down aileron could be acceptable to just give that little bit of lift boost for landing.

All I have to do is wait for Mr. Postman for my bits and pieces.

Nigel

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Old 09-28-2016, 06:28 PM   #3
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OK ... so she's all ready to go ...









Internal ... seems so 'empty' compared to the gasoline powered version I usually fly !!



Data :

Motor : Turnigy 5055A 450KV
Prop : 15x8 Wood
ESC : 80A with sBEC
LiPo : 6S 3300 30 - 40C Blue Turnigy
Radio : 9xr with 8ch FrSky Rx
Stabiliser : Hobby Eagle A3 Super II, set to modes NORMAL - OFF - Auto Hover

AUW incl battery to fly : 2880gr
CoG : 125mm from leading edge (recc'd 118mm)

The Gasoline version came out at 3090gr and CoG at 120mm and was a doll to fly so I think the 5mm difference on such a model of 1630mm span is not such a big deal. I have toned down my reduced rates just in case.
I may add a LiFe Rx pack which would alter that figure ... haven't decided yet.

I have not fully run her up yet - but initial quick tests while sorting motor indicate a lot of thrust ... I am expecting over 1.5 to 1 at least.

Wife has made me promise not to crash it !! I have to say it looks absolutely superb. Seems shame to mark her by flying. I think what makes a difference is not having to cut cowl to clear cylinder heads and mufflers ... its all so clean !

Crosses my mind whether a sound system may be in order !!

Now just wait for suitable weather .........

Nigel

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Old 09-29-2016, 12:25 PM   #4
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OK .. I've now decided to add the 1700 2S (6.6V) LiFe Rx pack to the model which now sits just behind the main 6S 3300 Power pack. I have removed the red pin from the ESC BEC lead and the LiFe pack is looking after Rx and servos.

This brings AUW to 2880gr (weight previous) + 95gr (LiFe pack) + 5gr (switch pack) .... total 2980gr.
Which is very close to my Gasoline version. CoG I don't think has changed much as the LiFe packs is only sitting a few cms in front of previous CoG marks. But it has moved it a few mm forward.

Nigel

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Old 09-29-2016, 04:27 PM   #5
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Ran up the power system today ...

On the 15x8 Turnigy wood prop - I get 3.1Kg of thrust at full throttle. barely just over 1:1 power to weight. YUK !!

On the TGS 15x10 Composite prop which I did not expect to very good as I think its too flexible - I get 4.2Kg of thrust !! That's what I was aiming at ... BUT the bad news is the blade shape does not allow a spinner back plate unless half the size I want.

I tried fitting a spinner with a back spacer - but the prop came off and chipped the cowl round the spinner circle.

So until I get a better 15x10 prop to fit - I will be pootling around at 1:1 Power to Weight ..... not so bad but frustrating ...

I couldn't test the watts as I need to make up a Deans to 4mm bullet adaptor lead to connect in my Wattmeter. eCalc indicates I should be around the 45 - 50A mark ... giving me about 4mins spirited flying on my 3300 lipo's. I may fit a larger pack to be able to remove the LiFe battery and put weight to better use.

Nigel

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Old 09-29-2016, 05:39 PM   #6
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NUTS !! The collet prop adaptor is cracked and unusable !! So now I have to wait to get a new collet ... it has to be a size that I have no spares !! 6mm shaft !

Nigel

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Old 10-12-2016, 06:19 PM   #7
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OK ... fitted a Hacker prop adaptor - very nice bit of gear as well.

So as per previous ............ "On the 15x8 Turnigy wood prop - I get 3.1Kg of thrust at full throttle. barely just over 1:1 power to weight. YUK !!

On the TGS 15x10 Composite prop which I did not expect to very good as I think its too flexible - I get 4.2Kg of thrust !! That's what I was aiming at ... BUT the bad news is the blade shape does not allow a spinner back plate unless half the size I want.
"

Today I fitted a Master Airscrew Composite 15x10 prop which spinner accepted ....

Ran her up with a charged 6S 3300 LiPo ....

4.22Kg thrust and 52A max draw.

Thrust is marvelous but run-time is going to be restrictive. Max throttle to ZERO gives 3.8 mins.

E-Calc gives : 4.5kg thrust, 53A max, 6.5mins mixed throttle flight .......

So I will have to be very careful to watch my flight time. I will start to use my Quanum Battery alarm and Tx timer more seriously ...

Must admit that MS prop really sounded nice. I have an Aerostar composite prop as well to try ...

Really looking forward to saturday and the maiden flight. I've even been modifying my Hatcam to try and get better video. I reckon I will take my Sony Handycam as well and see if someone will video separately ...

Nigel

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Old 10-13-2016, 12:04 AM   #8
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Great work. Love the look.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:17 AM   #9
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The Zlin is different to all those Extras, Sbachs etc. you see at near every flight site.

My gasoline version flies superb. So I expect this e-power version to perform well.

Nigel

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Old 10-15-2016, 06:24 PM   #10
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Today - weather forecast said light breeze and good conditions. Actual : Terrible variable winds gusting to really strong and cold !

Threw up old standbys and promptly decided it was NOT a good flying day.

Club was having its 'End of Summer' meeting and photos were taken of models. I put the Zlin together for the photo session ....

Taking her back to the van ... seemed a shame to have put her together ... to just take her apart again ...

I plucked up courage and plugged in ... out to grass strip ... test ... WHAT !! Ailerons badly aligned and reversed ! (OK - I am using the old wings from my Gasoline version - same wings - so saved me carrying one out to put another in the van ... )

Back to van and corrected the ailerons. Back to flight line.

Now just to recap ... model is 3.0kg, motor is 5055 400KV, 15x10 MAS prop on 6S LiPo. Static thrust measured at 4.2kg.

To say she took of is an understatement. She left the ground like it was on fire. Trim ? Single click here and there. Wind ... she shrugged it off ...

She flew on less than 1/2 throttle .... I didn't push her in the conditions and it was first flight ... but she rolled clean and straight with very little correction from me ... loop was straight and clean with no skew out ...

Video being uploaded at this time - only trouble is for some strange reason - when I turned across the sun - video frames stopped on that for the remaining 5 mins !! So sorry that video will be short - but at least it shows she flies !!

All I can say - is WOW ! WOW ! WOW ! .... in fact I might even admit she's better than the Gasoline version I have !!

Landing was a peach even in this wind ...

Here's the video :



Summary ? To be honest she would fly on a lot less motor - but then you need weight, something I found out with my gasoline version. So the combo I fitted was based on two factors .... power to 3D and also total weight to be similar to the gasoline version which I knew was balanced nice and flew well. You can always throttle back ... but max power is max power !
Overall ... today is a bad day to evaluate due to the wind conditions - but my feeling after the flight - MAGIC !!

Nigel

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Old 10-15-2016, 10:14 PM   #11
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Good anyway
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:24 AM   #12
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Really annoyed at video ! Given the terrible conditions - she flew a dream ...

Landing was text-book ! But no-one will see it ....

Not so happy at sound of the motor. I had to swap shaft round to fit and I think maybe the bearing is now 'tight' ... I'll run her till bearing gives out - then fit new bearing.

The 6S 3300 LiPo calculates out at 3.8mins at WOT to zero. eCalc gives just over 5 mins mixed flight result. I had just over 6mins including taxiing back to Pits at end ... so actual flight 5 mins. LiPo was at 40% after flight.

I will have to be careful to monitor time in flight ... as i have no margin for error. I might increase LiPo size ... I have a 94gr LiFe battery in there I can remove and revert to SBec of the ESC if necessary. At present the red pin of the SBec is not connected.
But to get real benefit of flight time - would need a significant increase of flight pack size ...

All figs are WOT to zero level

3300 : 3.8mins : (30C) 515gr + LiFe 94gr = present setup
4000 : 4.6mins : (20C) n/a (30C) 665gr
5000 : 5.8mins : (20C) 765gr (30C) 730gr

Interesting figs between labels weights ! .....

Zippy compact 5000 25C gives 703gr

This sounds the bees knees ....

Zippy Compact 4000 25C gives 562gr ... I can live with about 50gr increase as the CoG is slightly back from ideal anyway ... this would only create a couple of mm change if anything but is correct direction.

Nigel

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Old 10-17-2016, 03:22 PM   #13
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Just fitted dual electric smoke system to her ... that's one carrier to each U/C leg.

The Rx has a small trigger lead plugged in that has a two sequence trigger to it. You flick the Gear switch and lead 1 fires a 5V pulse to the detonator glued to front of the smoke cartridge. That cartridge ignites and smoke is given of for about 2 mins.

When I want to fire second cartridge - I flick the gear switch again and the trigger automatically fires the second lead to ignite the other cartridge.

At present I only have white smoke but have ordered a box of Orange as well.

Weight is minimal at 9gr per cartridge and the holder / detonator and dual trigger lead are less than 5gr total.

I can get 6 minute cartridges but to be honest - with flight pack only giving me 4 - 5 mins anyway ... not really needed. 2 min cartridges will be fine.

Nigel

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Old 03-20-2017, 11:10 AM   #14
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This is one model that I am liking more each time I fly ... trouble is had a bit of a party night before and then flying next day didn't feel too good ... co-ordination not so great !!



Nigel

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