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crashing
08-15-2005, 04:58 AM
I have a new lipo 11.1 and I cannot get the solder to stick to the deans plug I scratched it all up and put solder on the wire but &%$#&%#^%# it will not stick edited for language. any suggestions????? arrrrrrrrrrr.....


:mad: sighned frustrated crashing:confused: :confused:

Wingdoctor
08-15-2005, 05:07 AM
Try soldering paste.

you can get it at Home Depot, or Radio Shack

crashing
08-15-2005, 05:12 AM
Thanx, I think I have some. I am not as think as you dumb I am....

Jason T
08-15-2005, 06:52 PM
Crashing,

I have better luck with solder that is small diameter. I have some solder that does not melt well. I also started using Dean's solder and it works really well. BTW, what size is what wattage is your soldering iron? I would suggest at least a 40watt iron.

Also, make sure you tin both the wire and the connector itself.

Jason

Matt Kirsch
08-16-2005, 04:21 AM
There are four essential ingredients in the recipe for a successful soldering job:

1. Good heat.
2. Good solder.
3. Clean EVERYTHING.
4. Practice.

Got a soldering gun? THROW IT AWAY. Soldering guns are junk. You want an iron, a constant source of heat that's warm and ready when you are. 25 Watts is plenty for most smaller tasks, but 40W is a good choice for soldering Dean's plugs. Radio Shack has a nice dual-range setup with a base that doesn't cost too much.

I use only Radio Shack rosin core solder, .032 diameter.

Notice that sponge in the base of the Radio Shack soldering station? That's to clean the tip of the iron. Clean the tip before you go to apply solder EVERY TIME. Clean the tip after you're done. Just wipe it on the damp sponge.

Heat the wire until the solder melts and flows when applied to the wire. Don't heat the solder.

olmod
08-16-2005, 07:36 AM
Add heat to the deans tab after a second or 2 then push the solder between the iron and the tab, this should be done quickly as you can overheat the insulator,some like to plug in the mating half of a spare to act as a heat sink.;)

debhicks
08-16-2005, 11:58 AM
I'll try to put up some pictures today on this subject since it is something I do all the time. Make sure you are using rosin core solder not acid solder. Especially on your wire connections. Battery tabs can be especially problematic as some are very hard to take solder. There is solder specifically for silver soldering and for aluminum. If there is any corrosion solder won't stick either.

You would be totally amazed what a good iron will do for you too. It is a good investment. I use weller irons but I do heavy duty soldering on a constant basis.

Just my 2 cents worth.

HACKER_RULES
08-16-2005, 12:51 PM
Hi Crashing
my answer is all of the above and lots of practice. And yes, good equipment and prep. will always result in a good job.

Cheers HR

ragbag
08-16-2005, 02:25 PM
Look in the Battery and Charger Forum for a hint on soldering plugs using fuel tubing.
George
Gainesville Fl

2thelmt
08-24-2005, 03:16 PM
I have a new lipo 11.1 and I cannot get the solder to stick to the deans plug I scratched it all up and put solder on the wire but &%$#&%#^%# it will not stick edited for language. any suggestions????? arrrrrrrrrrr.....


:mad: sighned frustrated crashing:confused: :confused:

Hi...new to this forum and wanted to add to this post.
First, tin your wire and the tabs on the deans plug. If the solder won't stick you are not getting enough heat to the tab or the tip of your gun is damaged...make sure the Deans tab is not held by anything metal that can sink the heat away. Make sure your the tip of your iron is clean (sponge with water will clean as previously posted) and not damaged - should be a copper colour. Tin (with solder)the end of your iron immediately after cleaning. Also, leave a glob of solder on the tip of the gun after use for storage...this will protect the tip of the iron.

Hope this helps.

P.S. I use a butane pencil iron that produces alot of heat.

Ian

debhicks
08-24-2005, 03:23 PM
What kind of Solder are you using. If you have solder with flux in it that is good. If it still will not stick then if you have some liquid flux you can prep the surface with that first. The iron needs to be just right. With all the other explainations here you should be able to get it done. Aluminum is probably the hardest thing to solder. There is a product called Solder-it by Kool-it. It is advertised for aluminum and pot metal. It is a paste.

I hope that helps or has not been repeated:)

EZ1
08-26-2005, 04:16 PM
Hi...new to this forum and wanted to add to this post.
First, tin your wire and the tabs on the deans plug. If the solder won't stick you are not getting enough heat to the tab or the tip of your gun is damaged...make sure the Deans tab is not held by anything metal that can sink the heat away. Make sure your the tip of your iron is clean (sponge with water will clean as previously posted) and not damaged - should be a copper colour. Tin (with solder)the end of your iron immediately after cleaning. Also, leave a glob of solder on the tip of the gun after use for storage...this will protect the tip of the iron.

Hope this helps.

P.S. I use a butane pencil iron that produces alot of heat.

Ian

Take care touching a soldering tip with molten solder to anything wet with water...it will spit...watch the eyes

Electrasonic
08-26-2005, 04:46 PM
http://awilletts.ezonemag.com/deansultra.mpg

flypaper 2
08-26-2005, 06:12 PM
Crashing:
What soldering iron,gun, solder, type of flux are you using?

2thelmt
08-26-2005, 07:19 PM
Take care touching a soldering tip with molten solder to anything wet with water...it will spit...watch the eyes

Thanks for the warning, but in all my years of board repair I have yet to see solder "spit" while cleaning the tip.

EZ1
08-26-2005, 09:06 PM
Thanks for the warning, but in all my years of board repair I have yet to see solder "spit" while cleaning the tip.

Yeah, quite possibly, but really, Ive seen soldering irons unexpectedly spit back ...everything has many variables. But when molten alloy at 600+F hits water it still produces instant steam. On circuit board solderin' the inputs are kinda small so I reckon the results are proportional.The range of soldering "irons" I have kicking 'round range from the miniscule to over 2 pounds of copper on the business end, so maybe I was just a tad cautious because of being gun shy of molten lead and water donchaknow? *S*

50+AirYears
08-27-2005, 01:42 AM
Everything clean is always good. A temperature controlled soldering iron is always better than a fixed temperature iron. At work or at home, my adjustables are always set to between 640 and 660. The non-adjustables we've checked at work seem to run between 700 and 800 degrees. Way too hot for most soldering. I've been getting used to the new lead free solder, with no-clean flux, which has a slightly higher melting point, but still haven't had to go above 660. If the iron is too hot, it can burn away the flux before the flux can do its job. It can also kill the tip and make it useless pretty quick.
I have Wellers in 20 and 40 watt ranges, and they do about 90% of my soldering. I have a 60 watt with a hammerhead tip for making up battery sticks, and it sometimes scares me since it gets up to almost 800 degrees F. I haven't used either of my soldering guns in years. The nice thing about the Wellers, and other adjustables, is they have different sized replaceable tips so you can tailor the heat mass to the job. For Deans, I use a 3/16" screwdrive tip on my 40 Watt iron. That's Weller p/n ETD.
Never use any flux labeled as acid. Only RMA or one of the no-clean electronics solders. 63-37 is the best for electronics, but 60-40 is acceptable for most uses.

NJ Georgee
08-29-2005, 02:42 PM
Also never solder in your underwear,Ouchhhh!

E-Challenged
08-29-2005, 07:00 PM
Use a good soldering iron, not a gun or torch, that has at least 37 watts for soldering wires to connectors. 47 watts is probably a little better. A flat chisel tip is better than a round pointed one.Use electronic-type soldering paste flux and name brand rosin core electronics-type solder in a 63/37 to 60/40 tin/lead alloy.It is a good idea to practice soldering technique using an old connector before doing the real thing. Strip only one wire of a battery pack and complete soldering before stripping the other one to prevent shorts and panic and potential fire/explosion. Strip wire insulation carefully to avoid cutting wire strands. Apply a dab of paste flux to wire and "tin" the wire with a clean soldering iron tip. Keep wiping "slag" off the iron tip with damp paper towel or sponge and apply fresh solder to tip so that it is always bright and shiny looking while in use. Mount the connector in a vise or vise grips, etc. Apply a dab of past flux to the connecter teriminal and "tin" the terminal (coat it with a little solder) .Put proper size heat shrink tubing on wire away from the heat. Hold tinned wire against the terminal. Position the clean iron tip against the terminal and with your third hand ( or helper) flow a small amount solder to the terminal and watch it wick into wire, the apply more solder to complete the solder joint ( just enough for strength). Inspect for good solder flow and "filleting".Make sure that solder has not bridged over to the other terminal, reheat and it should flow back into the joint. Slide heat shrink tubing over the joint, shrink with heat gun. Now repeat above for the other battery pack wire, don't forget the heat shrink tubing.

GeraldRosebery
08-29-2005, 09:37 PM
I have a new lipo 11.1 and I cannot get the solder to stick to the deans plug I scratched it all up and put solder on the wire but &%$#&%#^%# it will not stick edited for language. any suggestions????? arrrrrrrrrrr.....


:mad: sighned frustrated crashing:confused: :confused:

If the plug has been properly cleaned with denatured ethanol or 91% rubbing alcohol, the solder should flow (it's flow, not stick) If it beads up and flakes off the problem is usually inadequate heat. The plug itself must reach solder melt temperature. Make sure you have rosin core solder. The correct way to solder is to put your iron against the plug with as much contact area as possible and then feed the solder in between the iron tip and the plug. If the iron is hot enough (another potential issue) the solder will immediately melt and flow across the surface of the plug. Deans plugs are gold and nothing takes tin-lead solder better than gold. When you solder wires to Deans plugs "tin" the plug and the wire separately and then melt (flow) them together in one motion. Soldering correctly is an art form. Practice makes perfect. I took a whole community college course on military specification soldering techniques.

50+AirYears
08-29-2005, 10:07 PM
We had a certified contractor come out to our lab to give 6 of us the MIL spec course and cert. The original course took 8 full days, classroom and practical. 4 of us made the certification. After about 6 years, the requirements changed, so we got the contractor back. The changes to the specs only required 18 hours class and practice to retain the certification.
A funny thing happened in Air Force tech school. We had a 2-day course on hard soldering (high temperature silver soldering). The instructor showed us a couple different joints, cutting them open to show how cleanliness and proper heat affects the quality of the joint. Turns out he couldn't understand how some people couldn't get a good joint in class no matter what they did, but said they never had any trouble with tin-lead soldering. The instructor said he couldn't do a good tin-lead joint to save his life, when the silver soldering is so easy, it almost makes good joints by itself without human intervention. Of course, an E3 (me) doesn't disagree with an E7 (him).
Cleanliness, good flux, and proper heat control are the secrets to all soldering.

Duster52
09-24-2005, 11:12 AM
Take care touching a soldering tip with molten solder to anything wet with water...it will spit...watch the eyes

Wiping the tip of a soldering iron with a damp cloth is the recommended method of keeping the tip clean. I never solder without a damp cloth nearby.

DougB
10-06-2005, 05:55 PM
Another good tip is to use a kitchen scubbing pad made of woven wire mesh to clean your tip with instead of the foam pad. Just push your iron's tip through the mesh before and after every solder joint for trouble free soldering...
Cheers,
DougB

hoppy
10-06-2005, 06:00 PM
I have a new lipo 11.1 and I cannot get the solder to stick to the deans plug I scratched it all up and put solder on the wire but &%$#&%#^%# it will not stick edited for language. any suggestions????? arrrrrrrrrrr.....


:mad: sighned frustrated crashing:confused: :confused:

What size soldering iron are you using? A 25-40W iron with a 3/16" - 1/4" spade tip will work good. The irons with those pencil lead thin tips can't deliver the heat needed.

50+AirYears
10-06-2005, 06:13 PM
The spitting solder problem usually only happens when water is used to cool a partially soldered joint. Water drops get trapped by fresh molten solderwhen continuing soldering, flashes into steam and can cause a miniature explosion. Ran into this years ago when I was building some of the HO corrugated metal buildings sold by a company name of Suydam. Trying to hurry, I used to hit joints with a wet rag or sponge, and once in a while get hit with a couple splatters. Solder training courses usually refer to the possibility, but using a damp sponge is the accepted method of keeping the tip clean of flux and dross build-up. Just wipe the tip across the sponge. There are also cleaning pastes that work real well if things build up too much.

hoppy
10-06-2005, 06:52 PM
Or, if it's acid flux solder....:(

50+AirYears
10-06-2005, 07:33 PM
Acid flux for sheet metal only. A definite no-no for any electrical work. Shouldn't even use an iron tip that's been used with acid flux on any electrical/electronics. Any acid flux residue that's not cleaned off will eventually cause corrosion and eventual joint failure.
Also, the cleaning sponge should only be damp, not wet. If water drips from the sponge, it's too wet.

mrfx2001
11-25-2005, 06:47 PM
Hello folks,
In the past, working in discrete communications electronics, spitting was a common situation. Kessler (a solder Manf.) had a thin roll of 60/40 product with 7 core rosin in it. How the devil they made seven itsy bitsy holes in the thin gauge solder is still a mystery to me. The root cause for spitting is lots of rosin in a ball that is surrounded by 700 deg solder. The rosin vaporizes and explodes. (Itís a good thing.) Wear safety glasses! The soldering problem (in generel) is common to nubees, new to the process of connecting wires by this method. The subject has been covered in detail to this point except for one facet. I have taught soldering as a radio amateur and found that some students only learn by example. (They had to be there) No disgrace, just the way it had to happen. There are no secrets to it. Here is my method.
1.) The gun (I donít recommend using for this)/ iron must make enough heat for the job. The measure of the ability to make the heat is in watts. I recommend a 25 to 30 watt pencil for pc work and 40 watts for wire. You must have a reasonable size of solder. Donít try to use a diameter normally acquired for plumbing unless you know how to do it. The solder must be rosin core. Do not use acid core unless you want to see your joint disappear (Iím not talking about smoking it.).
2.) The tip must be ďTINNEDĒ and clean. The heat will not transfer, from the tip to the work through, crusty looking black/ blue crud. Use a fine brass brush to clean the tip then dip the tip in soldering paste followed by tinning the tip with solder. (Tinning- The application of a thin coat of solder over the tip heating surface.) Do not wait 30 min after tinning to solder as the crud returns. You will have to clean and re-tin. Note, the use of a wetted (water) sponge will clean well also. Never use any abrasive (sandpaper) to clean a tip as the majority are nickel plated. If the plating goes away the tip will have to be replaced unless you are a seasoned solderer.
3.) The surface of the connection must be clean. Wire and connector pin. The best product to accomplish this is 600 grit or 3M green pad. If it is gold plated, check to be sure you are soldering the correct surface. If you are, donít do any scratching on it as the gold tarnishes very little. No additional cleaning other than the flux is needed for gold.
4.) OK here we go. Every thing is clean, tip tinned, the pencil watts are adequate, letís get to it. Try to stabilize the work on a counter or table so that both hands are free to perform the job and not hold the work. Heat rises, situate the work (if possible) so that the heat will run to the connection and not up the wire or connector. Note that it may be necessary to use alligator clips to sink off the heat at the connector as not to melt plastic. The part temp must reach around 700 deg for the solder to adhere and flow. Anything less is a ďcoldĒ connection. Apply the heat to both parts at the same from the bottom of the two applying a small amount of solder to transfer heat locally. When the parts are hot enough you will see the dab (of solder) ďwickĒ to the parts. It is now hot enough. Add a moderate amount of solder, not to much and allow to cool, donít move the joint until cool.
Youíre done.
Soldering is an acquired art. Practice on scraps and be patient. You will get it.
If you want quicker results, check around your locality for Radio Amateur clubs. Iím an ďXĒ amateur. We like passing on technique and info.
Sorry about the long post and I hope this helps.:o
Fred

Mustang
11-25-2005, 07:02 PM
If you want to lean how to solder do what Fred says. If it does not stick then it never will.
I worked in the electronics (instrumentation/semiconducter/robotics) Field for more years than I care to think about.
old Wentworth grad here....

n001pa
11-27-2005, 09:23 AM
I had trouble for years trying to learn how to solder then the owner of my favorite LHS suggested ruby red solder paste. Wow, this stuff really works. You just put a little on the parts you want to solder as well as a little on the tip of the iron. You then put some solder on the tip of the iron and flow that on to the each of the wires. Then when you hold the wires together and apply heat it works great. I don't know if this is the proper way to do it but it works for me.

ragbag
11-28-2005, 12:14 PM
EZ1,
Been there done that. Dropped a pig of solder in a fifty pound pot and ended up wearing most of it. A little dew was on the metal and it cleaned the pot out, fortunately I had my safety glass's on. They were covered with lead.

I pot wiped solder for Bell South for many years. Used coppers to solder with also. Couldn't use torches below ground.

ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASS'S.

It's your eyes, with out them it is very hard to enjoy our hobbies.

By George

50+AirYears
11-28-2005, 04:03 PM
Just like to say that if you're splicing wires together, twist the wire ends together tightly before heating and applying the solder. Tin the wire first if the wire will be soldered to a flat surface or into some kind of receptacle.
The MIL and JST trainning courses I've had over the last several years specify not more than about 640 degrees F for soldering. That will change as the RoHS feeding frenzy takes control. The no-lead solders need about a 20 degree higher temperature, although Texas Instrument uses a Nickle/Paladium/Gold soldering alloy, that looks like it will cost a minor fortune, compared to the current Tin/Silver/Copper alloys, and especially compared to the Tin/Lead solders.
I've found that the soldering guns are only practicle for heavy cables like over #10, of heavier sheet metal work. They get so hot that I've wrecked the light gauge sheet metal in some of the older Suydam HO scale model railroad buildings. The sheet metal warps.

Heidelberg Germany Flyer
12-03-2005, 08:47 AM
Looks like soldering is a hot topic...

Great advice. Especially the recommendation to wear goggles! On the safety side my soldering instructions also state that you should not breath in the fumes, and should wash your hands before you eat or smoke (because of the lead).

Any advice in soldering aluminum, I'm thinking of making some motor mounts out of aluminum pieces. Could I solder them?

Thanks,

HGF

mrfx2001
12-03-2005, 12:49 PM
Soldering (Torch Welding) aluminum. That brings back many nightmares. There is a product called Aluma-Weld that allows you to gas weld aluminum and it works, but not for me. I can tig, stick weld, solder, braze and sweat. The problem is that the work is VERY close to the melting point. I could not master the art of Aluma-Weld. A general rule of thumb (to be exact..732 deg.) you must raise the part temp to 700 deg and rub the rod in. It makes a great joint (you can’t smoke it) and has great strength if done correctly. At one of my jobs early on (70’s to 90’s) my boss (the Chief Engr. As he had an Amateur Extra and a First Class FCC ticket) moonlighted as a radio station chief for several stations in town and I would tag along to wire the studios and repair cart and reel tape machines. This guy could do the impossible with this product. He would weld end to end Pepsi cans (the Alu ones),then, would rub it in (the fact that I couldn’t use the product at all) and that would make me so mad I couldn’t function. I still borrow his talent today.
See this link for some info. It’s the same stuff. http://durafix.com/ (http://durafix.com/)
Fred

Rittenflyer
12-03-2005, 05:36 PM
I use flux-core solder from Radio Shack-the really thin stuff for electronics-and it works great. I even use it to join copper sheet on non-flying models. Make sure your soldering iron is producing enough heat, if the wires or plug are not hot enough, the solder will roll right off. Good luck. Soldering can be a @#$%^ (edited for language) if something isn't right, but pretty easy once you get a working system going.

Sean Rittenhouse

50+AirYears
12-04-2005, 02:48 AM
Aluminum soldering. What a nightmare. The couple shops around town who do aluminum work do heli-arc welding. I was about 50% sucsessful with the off the shelf flux core solder in repairing aluminum radiators and other tubing on cars, but like what was said before, have a stainless steel scratch brush handy, use it just before and just after applying the solder. Remember, the aluminum could start melting if you get the area just a little too hot. And aluminum oxidizes as fast as you can apply the solder, which is why you need the scratch brush if you can't surround the repair with an inert gas.
I tried the Aluma-Weld on a broken Tatone 40 sized mount. It held together about 8 runs, but I hadn't really gotten good penetration intothe joint. I was trying to avoid complete melt-down.
All soldering requires practic, but aluminum solder goes a bit farther and requires luck as well.

Jeremy Z
12-04-2005, 05:00 AM
I think this issue is being complicated a bit. While all the issues mentioned so far are good things to watch out for, the heat & the technique are the most important.

The technique: don't be to quick when applying heat to the material you're soldering to. In order for the solder to stick well, the material that you're soldering to must be hot enough to melt the solder by itself, without the iron/gun.

Your iron or gun must be hot enough to accomplish this, and you must hold that heat against the material you're soldering to for long enough for it to really heat up. However, a clean tip isn't going to transfer heat as well as a tip that has some solder on it. The liquid solder transfers heat MUCH more efficiently than a dry tip at the same temperature.

As mentioned before, tin the wire and the Deans terminal. Tinning refers to coating the terminal in solder. Yes, the terminal will need to be hot enough to melt the solder without the iron. Otherwise, it will be a cold solder joint, and it will just fall off at some inopportune time. In the meantime, it will be a high-resistance connection.

When you've got both the wire and the terminal tinned, apply the iron to the bottom of the Deans terminal until the solder on top melts. While still holding the iron on the terminal, put the tinned piece of wire to the terminal until they "melt together". All the solder should be one continuous liquid pool at this point. Then, remove the iron and hold the wire still until the solder has cooled. This can be hard to do without burning yourself unless you're holding the wire with a pliers to begin with. If you move the wire while the solder is drying, the connection could be compromised.

Now that you've made the proper connection, it is time to find out that you've forgotten to put the heatshrink tubing down the wire to begin with.

I have been an electronics tech for 7 years until just a few months ago, so I know a thing or two about soldering.

The mistake I see amateur solderers make the most often is just touching the tip briefly to their work, without allowing time for the workpiece to heat up properly.

Ignore that bit about guns being no good. It's just not true. I've used guns from 75W to 375W and irons from 25W to 300W successfully over the years. Guns are actually more suited to this type of work, because they don't need to warm up as long. Some will say they're never "ready to go". But most of us don't sit there soldering connectors for hours on end, where an always-ready iron would be of the most benefit.

After you're done using a gun for a minute or so, you can put it down and pretty much forget about it. If you bump it or touch it accidentally, you're not going to burn the hell out of yourself.. But do make sure that it is fully up to operating temperature before you start to solder.

Soldering is a skill best learned hands-on, but I tried the best I could! I bet there's a good soldering tutorial on the web, if you'd care to search for it.

Jeremy

P.S. Just noticed that mrfx2001 did a damn good job of covering this. He knows what he's talking about. I will leave this duplicate info in case it is more clear by one author or the other.

n001pa
12-04-2005, 08:54 AM
What if you are working with short wires on the speed control? I heard once that you don't want to get the wire to hot because you could damage the speed control or battery. Was this bogus info? Because I just can't seem to get the wires hot enough to melt the solder.

How powerfull should your iron or gun be? All I can find localy are 25w irons or 275w guns. Will these work?

50+AirYears
12-04-2005, 09:47 AM
Unless you have a high current speed control with something larger than 18 or 16 gage wire, the 25 Watt iron is better that the 25 W gun.
Too much heat, or too high a temperature when working on a dense PC board can cause a breakdown in the bond between the copper trace and the board material. Also, too much heat can cause the flux to flash off, affecting the bond.
If using too high a temperature when soldering to many small semiconductors, they can at least have enough heat damage if not an immediate failure.
Bigger guns and irons are OK for splicing wires, or soldering to other large masses, but for fine solder work, like with 0.050" pitch semiconductors or things like SOD532 and 0603 or 0402 resistors and caps, the iron needs to be fittted to the job.
Even now, 3 years after having an instructor in to our lab to upgrade our certifications, we still find ouselves whacking knuckles on people wo set the soldering stations to 750 or 800 degrees thinking the solder works better. We've also made a couple of those guys troubleshoot their boards WHEN they fail.
The damage to a semiconductor doesn't always show up the first time a circuit is powered up.

ragbag
12-04-2005, 12:26 PM
I've soldered a few thousand wire myself. The technic doesn't apply here, but the method was to dip the joint into hot solder. We twist spliced one hundred pair at a time, they were butt spliced. 50# pot of solder and a ladle. Dip the wires in a ladle and hold for one minute, as you remove the bundle drag the ends over the lip of the ladle and flip the excess solder off. Put a parafine waxed cotton sleeve on each of the 200 wires that you just soldered.

Two men, good at what we did, could do 1200 pairs in four hours. Never took me and my working buddy that long.

We did 2400 and 3600 pair cables all week, a crew around the clock.

"Soldering" fiber cable was a lot more complicated and nowhere as dangerous. Wife want me to get a heavey metal test, but at my age wahy bother.

By George

mrfx2001
12-04-2005, 04:13 PM
""1.) The gun (I don’t recommend using for this)/ iron must make enough heat for the job."" …………..This was posted for those who are having problems. Those that are experienced would have no problem controlling the heat by cycling the trigger. Most guns range from 125-200 watts, and I would not recommend this hardware except for the most accomplished modelers. Practicing on scrap wire and connectors would be the ticket for those not having anything other than a soldering gun.

Jeremy Z
12-04-2005, 04:14 PM
What if you are working with short wires on the speed control? I heard once that you don't want to get the wire to hot because you could damage the speed control or battery. Was this bogus info?

No, that's correct. Mostly the speed control.

Because I just can't seem to get the wires hot enough to melt the solder.

Is your tip loose? worn-out? If so, tighten or replace it.

Is your tip tinned? It needs a little solder on it to conduct heat efficiently.

Are you holding the tip on the wire long enough? If you're worried about sending damaging heat back to the ESC, go to Radio Shack and buy a couple of heat sink clips. They're cheap. But I've never needed them.

How powerfull should your iron or gun be? All I can find localy are 25w irons or 275w guns. Will these work?

25-40W iron should be fine. A 275W gun would work fine too, but you'd better know what you're doing. It won't take long for a 275W gun to melt the insulation on the wire and toast your circuits!

Go with the 25W iron and follow the techniques previously outline.

If you're scared to do it or something, send me a PM. I'll give you my address, you can mail it to me, and I'll do it for you. (with a variable temperature iron at work) For me, it is only a few minutes worth of work, and no hassle at all.

Jeremy

n001pa
12-04-2005, 10:18 PM
If you're scared to do it or something, send me a PM. I'll give you my address, you can mail it to me, and I'll do it for you. (with a variable temperature iron at work) For me, it is only a few minutes worth of work, and no hassle at all.
That's basically what I've been doing for years. Giving things to friends so they can solder it for me. I want to be able to do it myself. I am getting beter but I am still having problems.:confused:

When I try to tin the tip the solder just balls up and falls off. Every now and then I can get a good coating on there and everything works great but most of the time I can't get any to stick.:mad:

Also when I try to heat the wires first I am getting the wires so hot that a little bit of the casing is melting at the ends. I doubt that's a problem but my shrink tubing is also melting so I can't slide it over my ugly solder joint when I'm done.:confused:

What am I doing wrong? Every time I try to get somebody to show me, they basically just do it in a few seconds and I can't figure out what they are doing that I'm not. And they can't tell me because it's second nature to them. I understand that because as a composite bagger I have never been able to explain how I can bag a part so fast when most people are struggling.

flypaper 2
12-05-2005, 04:05 AM
If it balls up on you sounds like there may not be enough flux. Used to be able to buy a little tin of flux from electronics places. Don't know if you can still get it.

cyclops2
12-05-2005, 04:38 AM
Balling up on the IRON TIP means that the tip will have to be scrubbed while it is hot with a FINE sand paper to remove the baked on OXIDATION. Flux can not remove oxidation. It has to be scrubed off. Try it. Keep doing scrubs until the whole tip is covered with solder. If you do not scrub and clean as the balling up gets going, you will need to replace the tip.

glowplug50
03-27-2006, 01:09 AM
Are you using the appropriate flux?
Did you tin the wires and the deans plug where the wires will attach?

Bill Hawthorne
03-27-2006, 01:46 AM
I wonder if crashing ever learned to solder Deans connectors...hope so as this post was started on 8-14-05! ;)

Battlemg
03-28-2006, 02:56 AM
I hope he did. I started reading this thread about Jan. I have since learned to solder quite well by following the advice from just this thread and some web site that pretty much said the same thing these folks are saying. I have soldered 4 lipos, 3 speed controls, and about 6 0r 9 bullets. I use a 40w iron, and grind the tip with a dremel every time i use it. Plus a helping hands thingie I bought at Radio Shack. That thing is worth it's weight in gold.

50+AirYears
03-30-2006, 12:31 AM
Also, don't mistake heat and temperature when soldering. The important thing is not how high a temperature the tip gets, but how well does the tip transfer the heat to the joint. A well maintained flat or scewdriver tip at 620 to 650 degrees almost always does a better job than these round conical tips on fixed heat irons or on guns that might get over 800 degrees. The high temperature tip can prevent good joints by burning off the flux before it can do it's job.
I've also found that one of the tip cleaning pastes such as even RS sells is usually better for tip life than any kind of abrasive like sandpaper, especially with a new or plated tip.
I spent years using the guns and cone and chisel tip irons to solder starting in the old tube days with big wires and heavy solder lugs and terminals. Even sometimes taught some soldering in the AF. Then, when I started working with semiconductors, I had to learn how to properly solder.

crashing
03-30-2006, 01:00 AM
Wow, I had no idea my question was such a hot topic. I have, since reading replies to this thread become very proficient to the art of soldering. I have done many packs, speed controls and brush-less motors I just wanted to say thank you to all that replied. This is a great community and resource for just about anything needed for the ever increasing # of electric RC addicts like myself. This sight has saved me hours of time and hundreds probably thousands of dollars thank you to all and especially the staff who without their vision, none of this would have been possible.:D <-------big grin with my hats off to all involved.

oracle_9
03-30-2006, 05:04 AM
Uhm, there is an "old recipe" to make a paste/flux type substance that will make soldering easy, and it doesn't matter what wattage the iron is or how clean the surface is and what not. I used this compound for years. If two metals dont still, well, with this it will. Example, lets say you want to solder some tabs or wires to the battery cell, and the solder will not simply stick to the cell ends. Apply this compound and it will easily.

Recipe: Get some Violin bow resin, from the music shop. Then if you have one of those stone bowls and stone pounding tools, then grind it into a fine powder. Then put it into a small container. Then pour in some alcohol. The ratio is not important, just simply get it to be a fluidy yellowish orange liquid. Mix very well!! And there your done. One note, make sure the container's lid is always closed when not in use or else the alcohol will evaporate. And always before use, shake the container.

Now, use a small brush, like a watercolor brush or one of those 3/8" epoxy brushes, then dip it into the solution and apply a coat onto all surfaces, in my example's case, to the wire and to the cell ends. No need to clean the surfaces. Then add some solder to the soldering iron tip and touch the resin'ed surface and what it flow nicely onto it to create a flat soldering surface. If you like you can apply another coat of this solution over that and solder the wire onto it. Also, you can apply another coat over all that to give it a protective coating, similar to the electronic circuit boards backside.

Whenever you experience solder not sticking to the surface, this will do the trick, I have not had a problem with this. This makes a nice professional looking job. The "soldering paste" commonly found also works in some cases, but this solutions is far better. As well, the paste will eventually corrode the metal over time. This solution I state will not, and acts as a protectional coating.

Anyway, I thought I might share this, since I am very statisfied with this.

Battlemg
03-31-2006, 04:08 AM
I solder with the ole plain jane solder. So I have to ask - what is flux? And is it related to a flux-capacitor? Seriously, what is flux and what does it do? In layman's terms please. Some of you guys lose me in the first sentence.

Jeremy Z
03-31-2006, 02:02 PM
Battlemg,

Flux is what makes solder stick better. Most, if not all, electronics grade solder is "rosin core", which means the flux is already in it. (plumbing grade doesn't have flux)

For the stuff that you're having a hard time with, it sometimes isn't enough. In that case, you will be amazed at how easy it becomes with a separate supply of flux.

50+AirYears
03-31-2006, 03:22 PM
Basically, flux is like a detergent that cleans the surface of the metal you're soldering to. Electrical solder uses a rosin or a no-clean chemical to do the cleaning. This flux usually has no long term problem with causing corrosion, although it's usually a good idea to clean the joint off after soldering. For sheet metal or plumbing work, the flux is usually an acid based flux that has to be thoroughly cleaned off or it will continue to corrode the joint. NEVER use an acid flux on ANY electrical joint, or even with an iron tip you use for electrical soldering.
Most solders, especially electrical grade, come with the flux in the wire core. Almost any kind of flux you might want to use is also available separately.
Also, when using the no-cleans, you don't normally have to use extra flux, Isopropyl alcohol works quite well to boost the effect.

rcgeezer
04-06-2006, 03:57 AM
Molten metal in the presnce of water can be deadly. While working in the aluminum industry for 35 years my sight was saved many times by safety glasses when molten aluminum exploded during the casting process. I never do any soldering no matter how small the job without the added protection of glasses. Nuff said. Gnomehttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

FlyWheel
10-13-2010, 12:39 PM
I've soldered a few thousand wire myself. The technic doesn't apply here, but the method was to dip the joint into hot solder. We twist spliced one hundred pair at a time, they were butt spliced. 50# pot of solder and a ladle. Dip the wires in a ladle and hold for one minute, as you remove the bundle drag the ends over the lip of the ladle and flip the excess solder off. Put a parafine waxed cotton sleeve on each of the 200 wires that you just soldered.

Two men, good at what we did, could do 1200 pairs in four hours. Never took me and my working buddy that long.

We did 2400 and 3600 pair cables all week, a crew around the clock.

"Soldering" fiber cable was a lot more complicated and nowhere as dangerous. Wife want me to get a heavey metal test, but at my age wahy bother.

By George

You might want to get the test :D

tehlump
10-13-2010, 02:55 PM
I'm a newbie to this hobby but not completely unfamiliar with soldering. Everything seems to be covered above except the temperature...

I know this because I just converted all my packs to deans connectors this weekend. There were several recommendations for 500-600 F above...the deans bag I had said 700 minimum.

I set my 60 watt iron to 800 F. To tin the connector I held it on the connector for 4-5 seconds or so and that seemed to heat it up nicely without overheating the insulation. All the connections are nice and tight :D

* I just saw that the original post was 2005...Doh! *

50+AirYears
10-14-2010, 03:43 AM
Hey, don't worry about how old a post is, or when the most recent reply went in.
In my lab job, I had to take several soldering specific courses for ISO 9000 and several different MIL spec levels. We discarded fixed heat soldering irons years ago. In fact, all our soldering irons were replaced by adjustable temperature replaceable tip irons that had many tipe shapes and sizes available. Most of the training for certification limited the iron temperature to around 650 F, and matched the wattage rating of the iron and tip size and shape to the job. Too hot an iron or too small a tip can lead to damage, especially on circuit boards. The main trick is to use enough heat and contact area to get the solder to melt into the heated joint and remove the tip before all the flux is burned away. And to avoid putting enough heat into a jiont, especially with wire, to flow too much solder into the joint. Notice, I refer to heat and temperature as separate entities.

Just before being retired, we were starting to (try to) use the non-lead solders that met the new hazardous material regulations. Lots of problems, especially since these solders frequently need higher temperatures, and don't have the same joint wetting characteristics as tin-lead. Real problems with delaminating pc boards and damaging semiconductors and even capacitors from overheating. And that was only the most immediate complications we ran into.

Oh, ya. I also sometimes used the solder pot method of tinning wire ends. We actually had one older tech diagnosed with heavy metal poisoning from doing a lot of soldering with the pot, and other obsolete soldering techniques. That was before we started using carbon filtered air movers on the workbenches for soldering. Happily, it was before he started having symptoms. The treatment apparently wasn't fun, but he did get cleaned up.

tehlump
10-14-2010, 07:01 PM
thank you for the advice! that makes a lot of sense...I just wanted to post what the directions on the package said. My iron has replaceable tips, I really need to buy a wider tip as the one I had was actually too narrow for the job.

I didn't realize the new lead free solder required higher temps, thanks again!

50+AirYears
10-14-2010, 10:02 PM
Oddly enough, the no-lead solders only seem to need aroung an extra 25 - 40 degrees of temperature, but with problems with wetting, that caused us a considerable number of problems, especially with sime of the newer components. Think of trying to solder surface mount resistors 0402, 0r 0201 size, think of cutting a small grain rice kernel in half and trying to solder the two ends without damaging anything.

cyclops2
10-14-2010, 10:54 PM
Modern wires are scrap steel strands that are POSSIBLY tin coated.
Plugs and sockets are BARELY tin plated with a few thousanths.
Using ANY sand paper on either one ruins your chances of a good solder connection.

Parts are built for a 1 time use ONLY !! There is absolutly no intention by a company to do any rework on anything they build. It is not needed.

I have yet to see NON-MAGNETIC servo lead wires. Also known as Copper.

Face it. Building in the ability for us to repair or reuse anything DOES cost the company money.

I only use Rosen cored solder. Tin,Antimoney & Lead. If that does not wet out smoothly, I trash the part.

Frustration is BADDDD. Avoid it like the Black Plague. :concern:

50+AirYears
10-14-2010, 11:28 PM
I do use cored solder, either rosin or no-clean. 60-40 or better yet, 63-37. Also have a couple squeeze bottles of both types of liquid flux. On the board work I've done, often even a wash of Isopropyl alcohol helps considerably. Also wash the joints with Isopropyl after finishing solder.

For cleaning the surfaces I am going to solder to, I'll burnish them with some Isopropyl and a piece of typewriter or newspaper. Never abrasives or files. Usually works great, unless the surfaces are really corroded or pitted.

I just checked a number of salvaged servo leads with a magnet from an old open frame mrr motor. none of them are attracted to the magnet. If they were scrap steel, they'd be nearly impossible to solder. Steel is a very poor conductor for almost any electronic use, although I have used some low-ohm power resistors that are made of some very specific steel compositions. They are fairly expensive as well. Of course, motors and transformers are usually wound with something called magnet wire, which is a special copper alloy with specific characteritics which make it far more efficient for use in coils.

As far as repairability, I used to do considerable rework on prototype boards. Rework there is almost mandatory, since the board could cost several hundred dollars in prototype quantities, like 5 or 10. That same board, fully loaded with components, could be down to a couple dollars in the production device. Troubleshooting and repair of such a board can easily run into the cost of a prototype board. It's not an intentional designed in feature, it's the nature of the beast. Also, today's modern microelectronics circuits are far more energy efficient and even more reliable and dependable than what I was working with almost 50 years ago. They are also very hard for a person to do repair work on without causing further damage.

But, without the small size, we'd still be flying the old tube type heavyweight systems, or even like my first proportional radio, easy to service all transistorized flight packs that weigh one or two pounds and need 500 to 1000 mAh 4, 5, or even 6 cell battery packs that could only give an hour or so worth of flying.

Of course, I've also seen things similar to cyclop's description in some cheap consumer entertainment equipment. I haven't seen things like that in American, European, or Japanese electronics, at least for several decades. Not sure about some of the stuff coming from China nowadays, though. I have scrapped a number of spools of a plated wire from years ago that was specified for audi systems. Total c**p! Don't know if anybody makes it today. Hope not.

Plating is not designed to be thick. It's only function, when used, is to protect the base metal from damage such as corrosion and provide an interface with whatever is to be soldered to it. If the plating is too thick, it can interfere with the formation of the intermetalic compounds that form a mechanically strong low electrical resistance bond.

cyclops2
10-14-2010, 11:51 PM
Our hobby stuff gets a lot of variation during long production runs & tight money times. I could solder to the highest Mil Specs. I have trashed some GWS wiring harnesses. The pins are way oversized for the soldered wire in the hole. Many are cold soldered. Piece work on motor leads ? The best solution would appear to be compression them. Maybe. Small wire in a giant hole is bad also. Always slide the pretty heatshrink over the connection .
Then the customer watches the prop jiggle back & forth as the motor is rapidly burned up in 10 seconds.

" What did I do wrong ? "........Nothing.