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Crash9
07-12-2007, 05:35 AM
I want to use a another radio (Optic 6 72FM) to control the Pan n Tilt camera on my TwinStar II so another person could view the video monitor/goggles and work the camera. The planes radio is my DX7 and as of now it controls the cameras Pan n Tilt when I fly FPV but to add to the fun I rather someone else (co-pilot/observer) handled the camera movment and I could fly in regular view (looking at the plane from the ground). This is done with pro RC movie helicopters all the time but not so much with foamy planes. So in short the DX7 2.4 radio controls the plane and the Optic 6 controls the 900mhz wireless video camera.

Gear:

TwinStar II all built and ready to go
DX7 and AR7000 RX for plane
Optic 6 and Hitec electron 6 RX for Pan n Tilt
KX-151 high resolution camera
900mhz audio/video RX & TX

Crash9
07-12-2007, 06:31 PM
Once I see how this works out I may add second camera on the nose for FPV piloting that is mounted in a fixed position http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif.
I should mention the reason I want someone to control the Pan n Tilt camera instead of me is to have them keep the camrea on the target (ground object, moving race car, waterfall, another rc plane, etc..). It's not that hard to stay on a target while I'm flying in FPV mode but I must keep paning forward to which I can see the horizon again. In FPV mode this is important to till whether or not your climbing, decending or banking. Also this allows someone who doesn't know how to fly R/C join in the funhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif.

brnyrbbl
07-12-2007, 06:35 PM
Sounds pretty cool Crash!

Kai_Shiden
07-12-2007, 08:39 PM
Neat stuff Crash9

-Kai

aviatordave
07-12-2007, 09:28 PM
Neat idea. Lots of radio waves from that plane! 2.4 Ghz, .9 Ghz, & .72 Ghz....

Hopefully they dont talk to each other to much, let us know how it goes.

Dave

Crash9
07-12-2007, 10:30 PM
Thanks BR:tc:. Last night I wired the TwinStar II for the 2 radio set-up. To cut down any possible interferace from the 900mhz A/V TX I placed the 2 Radio RXs in the rear of the plane where I removed some inner foam allowing for more cargo space. It's good to have them 6 to 10" from the video TX. I'm using a seperate battery to power the video gear (1340mah 11.1vLipo) and the Hitec FM RX which powers the Pan/Tlit servos. The right hand stick on the Optic 6 (channel 1&2) controls the Pan/Tilt. I'll post pics on the set-up location later:).

Crash9
07-12-2007, 10:39 PM
Neat idea. Lots of radio waves from that plane! 2.4 Ghz, .9 Ghz, & .72 Ghz....

Hopefully they dont talk to each other to much, let us know how it goes.

DaveYeah I hope not. I'm going with the thought that I have no interference now with the DX7 and 900mhz video gear so adding the 72mhz radio gear to the plan will not affect anything. Fingers crossed of coursehttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif. I'll test the whole set up tonite and do a range test. I f all goes well I will fly it this weekend if I can get someone to come along and work the camerahttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif.

Crash9
07-13-2007, 04:17 AM
Here's pics of the rear of the TwinStar where I have the 2 RX and seperate battery. Everything tucks in there real nice.



:)

Crash9
07-13-2007, 04:38 AM
Since I'm removing some of my FPV gear like the GPS and OSD I was looking at putting my Samsung DVR on-board for clearer recording then what you get on the ground with a wireless link (no video static). The removed TSII FPV gear weighs 4.5 oz and the DVR is 6oz = 1.5oz of added weight. Not a big deal, Ive had the Twin weighing up to 73oz without a struggle with the 2 E-Flite 480 out-runners for power. The only thing I might have to consider is adding a Video Amp to split the signal from the camera to the wireless video TX and the DVR. First I'll do a couple of test with a "Y" connector and then with the video amp splitter. If there's no noticable loss in quality with the "Y" I'll just run with it.
I also hacked the Samsungs external camera cable to allow me to use the higher res KX-151 and PH3 microphone. The reason I use the factory cable and not make a custom one is I like the remote on/off rec button is very handy. The ex-camera that came with the Samsung has only 280 lines of resolution were the KX-151 has 480 lines matching the internal Samsung camera. are you With me so farhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif...what do mean no...maybe the pics can helphttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif.


#1 Regular Samsung set-up with plugs added.
#2 KX-151 and PH3 mic replacing low res camera
#3 Video Amp with case removed is lighter then the FPV OSD board
#4 also about the same size
#5 a computer generated CAD diagram for using a video amphttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif

Crash9
07-13-2007, 05:01 AM
I use 2-2100mAh 3cell 11.1v lipos wired parallel with custom deans connector for planes power. For CG they get placed in the middle. This leaves plenty of space for the DVR and all the wiring.

brnyrbbl
07-13-2007, 05:05 AM
Looking good Crash. Are you going to reinforce the wings some more?

Crash9
07-13-2007, 05:15 AM
Thanks for reminding mehttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif I need to make a hobby store run tomorrow for some carbon fiber rod to add to the leading edge. I have some rod on there now but as you know it's to small. Adding more payload has increased the wing flap factor and that should helphttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif.

brnyrbbl
07-13-2007, 05:45 AM
No problem.. Just thought I'd ask with the extra payload you are adding. I'd hate to watch the wingtips touch each other and see your plane spiraling down to earth ;-)

Crash9
07-13-2007, 08:44 AM
So I've got everything tested and no interference. I even went and ran up the motors while testing. It's already to go. A short 45sec video showing it work. Tomorrow I will test whether or not I need to use the video amp or get away with a "Y".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V10HF84belQ

Sparky Paul
07-13-2007, 07:12 PM
I've done tilting with Futaba 6 and 7 transmitters, which have a knob for varying the tilt to any angle.
What is there on the DX-7 transmitter that does this?

Kai_Shiden
07-13-2007, 07:23 PM
I've done tilting with Futaba 6 and 7 transmitters, which have a knob for varying the tilt to any angle.
What is there on the DX-7 transmitter that does this?That's the thing that pisses me off about my DX-7, no sliders or knobs, the only "realtime proportional" controls are the 2 sticks (I loved the knobs and sliders on my Futaba 9C for doing custom variable mixes, like flaps, airbrakes, spoilers, etc).

He's not using the knobs/sliders, he has the camera setup being controlled from his Optic6, and the flight controls on the DX-7.

-Kai

P.S. I only went with a DX7 because I had some very costly lockout/shootdown crashes/emergencies on 72mhz (the shootdowns I was lucky enough to recover in time by running towards my helis), and simply couldn't afford to wait for other 2.4ghz options. But one of the lockout crashes on 72mhz with my LAheli Sniper cost me over $300 (the toasted battery pack alone was $170).

Crash9
07-13-2007, 08:09 PM
-Kai

P.S. I only went with a DX7 because I had some very costly lockout/shootdown crashes/emergencies on 72mhz (the shootdowns I was lucky enough to recover in time by running towards my helis), and simply couldn't afford to wait for other 2.4ghz options. But one of the lockout crashes on 72mhz with my LAheli Sniper cost me over $300 (the toasted battery pack alone was $170).
I totally agree and been there. As I was testing this set-up and there was nothing on but the Optic 6 that controls the pan n tilt, at times there would be a little glitch from the servos reminding me why I got the DX7.

SP, It would be nice if it had slidershttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif but even if I had sliders on the DX7 I still wouldn't need them for this project since the plan is to have a co-pilot/observer do the camera work and I wouldn't want them touching my radio controls while I'm trying to flyhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif.

Crash9
07-15-2007, 01:38 AM
Ok, my wings are handledhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif. I added wing struts instead of going with bigger CF on the leading edge. The strut set-up was the lightest weight and strongest against wing flap, and not to mention I never really trusted the 2 plastic bolts that hold the wing on the TSII and this will take up a lot of the loaded stress on them with my payload (RTF 67oz) :).

Crash9
07-15-2007, 01:50 AM
I had to make a custom Y connector out of a Servo Y for video. I remove the bulky RCA connectors and replace with servo ones on all my wireless gear. I wraped the ground (orange/brown) around the signal wire (red) giving it some shielding like what co-ax cable does to cut down on possible video interference. I'm hoping this will work with good picture results but if not I will use the video amp for splitting the signal. I'll get it tested tonite and take her flying tomorrow morning.

Crash9
07-15-2007, 06:23 AM
My test with the "Y" came out ok. The pictrure darkens a bit but maybe acceptable. The video amp helped and I like the fact I can adjust the gain for each video output.

#1 KX-151 camera w/no Y or amp (DVR only)
#2 KX-151 video split with the Y (A/V Tx & DVR)
#3 KX-151 video split with amp (A/V Tx & DVR)

Crash9
07-15-2007, 06:38 AM
So I'll run with the amp and if the video ends up to bright then the Y will be used to save weight even though the video amp only weighs 1.2oz after case and RCAs where removedhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Crash9
07-15-2007, 09:29 PM
Todays flights went very well and thanks to brnyrbbl for operating the Pan n Tilt camerahttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif. There was some glitching on the Optic 6 end causing the pan n tilt servos to go crazy at certain spots over the field http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gifand now I know why the 72mhz guys that fly here complain about taking hits. Gotta love the 2.4 radioshttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif. We noticed that the module on the Optic 6 gets hot after 5 minutes and the glitching gets even worse. I will swap it for a Lazer4 and Berg 4 channel RX for next time. I'll edit the video and post it soon.

All in all it was a successful test and a lot of fun!!!http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

brnyrbbl
07-15-2007, 09:36 PM
It sure was! Thank you Crash9 for including me in such an awesome experience! :)

brnyrbbl
07-16-2007, 01:35 AM
Hah!! I just pulled all the video off the Sony cam.. Guess what? I forgot to push record while you were testing out my Trex! Dohhh! Now that I think about it, what a dork I am.. following the heli around like I'm filming and it wasn't even recording! :Q

I have the footage of your heli flying. I'll get it to you whenever you want on a DVD.

Crash9
07-17-2007, 07:01 PM
Bummer Barney. Your rex is a nice flyer.
I've been veiwing the Pan n Tilt video and I 'm woundering how you didn't become motion sick when those servos started glicthing:<. Lots of good stuff still.

brnyrbbl
07-17-2007, 07:17 PM
I can't wait to see what you do with the video after cutting out the glitches. Should look pretty cool!

It takes alot to make me sick. :) I love when my dad was going for his IFR rating and they practised "unusual attitudes". Straight up, push the nose over, straight down.. Weeeee!! Or being on the ocean with 16' swells. I'm always at the bow :)

Crash9
07-20-2007, 07:43 PM
Here's the video of the first test with co-pilot (brnyrbbl) operating the Pan & Tilt camera.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zesn_XIul-Y

brnyrbbl
07-20-2007, 07:54 PM
Good Job on the Video Crash! How much of the Video was cut due to the glitches and my crappy camera control? :)

Crash9
07-20-2007, 08:09 PM
Don't feel bad http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gifit wasn't your camera control it was the crapy Optic 6 causing all the glitcheshttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif. I now have it set up with the Lazer 4 and no glitcheshttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif. I thought also we could use a DX6/7 for the second radiohttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif. I have a spare AR6000 we could throw in there for a test....

brnyrbbl
07-20-2007, 08:11 PM
I have the DX7 if you need to use it :)

aviatordave
07-20-2007, 08:48 PM
Here's the video of the first test with co-pilot (brnyrbbl) operating the Pan & Tilt camera.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zesn_XIul-Y

Very cool crash. I was going to ask you how you are powering that extra rx for the pan/tilt servos....(lipo w/v reg or nasty nicads?)

I watched your video from your CO vacation in the fpv forum at rcg, that looked like the same red SUV making its way through the mountains :)

I'm starting to get geared up for fpv after some long consideration, I think I spent a couple hours on your site last night, alot of useful info on there -

thanks

Crash9
07-21-2007, 09:02 PM
Thanks Dave, That Red 4Runner sure gets me aroundhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif. The FPV stuff is something I think you'll have a lot of fun with and I'm sure you'll pick it up pretty fasthttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif. Glad my site was helpful. Scott

Crash9
07-21-2007, 09:04 PM
I have the DX7 if you need to use it :)Sunday morning for another flight?

brnyrbbl
07-21-2007, 09:06 PM
Yep.. Sunday morning for sure!

Crash9
07-31-2007, 05:41 AM
Turns out you don't want to Spectrum RX on a plane. This time the plane took the glitches.

aviatordave
07-31-2007, 05:56 AM
??

Explain? please

brnyrbbl
07-31-2007, 06:06 AM
Thank god for foam eh Crash!

Biplane Murphy
07-31-2007, 06:31 AM
Cool video...Hope your plane is o.K.

Murph.....

brnyrbbl
07-31-2007, 07:38 AM
Crash must be busy so I hope he doesn't mind me giving some insight. He had a DX7 to control the plane with a 6100 receiver and a DX6 to control the pan and tilt camera with a 6000 receiver. The video runs on 900mhz. Something happened where the plane lost control, regained control, then lost control again spiralling down nose first. Very minor damage. All he could think is that the two 2.4ghz sytems/ receivers so close together may have saturated the signal resulting in loss of control.

aviatordave
07-31-2007, 01:39 PM
Isnt the 6100 the rx that gets blocked signals if objects (battery, motor, etc) is in its line of path?

iMflyer
07-31-2007, 02:42 PM
I had something similar happen while flying with the 900mhz wireless video on my APV2 using the spektrum DX7... During one of my flights with the wireless video, I lost control of the plane for a second or two, the plane started to dive and no matter what I did with the controls during that moment the plane did not respond... The good thing the plane was high enough in the air when this phenomenon occurred then I regained control of the plane all of sudden just right before the plane was to hit the ground. I was able to recover from the dive and landed the plane safely...

Then I transferred the 900mhz gear to my eBUHOR and it happened again, I lost control of the plane, but this time I wasn't able to regain control of the plane - no matter what I did with the control sticks, nothing happened. The plane literally darted into the ground; however, all of the equipment survived the crash. The only thing I had to replace was the fuselage...

I have AR6100 Rxs on both planes... Perhaps someone here can explain what's causing the signal lost.

iMflyer

aviatordave
07-31-2007, 03:00 PM
I'm using the AR7000 rx. Its small and light enough to use on your planes and offers much more reliabilty. I just got the 900 Mhz video downlink....I hope all goes well with it.

Crash9
07-31-2007, 06:33 PM
Thanks brrnyrbble, I should clear up one thing, the planes RX is a AR7000 and the pan & tilt is a AR6000. The first flight had only one glitch but the second flight had multi-glitches. I have never had any glitches with the plane before with the 900 gear and I keep it's TX more then 10" apart from the AR7000. The first flight we thought the glitch may have been caused from getting the Pan &tilt RX power from the AR7000 using a servo jumper wire so we switched to powering it off the cameras battery with a BEC but the glitching became worse. I believe why this is happening is because the 2 RX are to close together. Correct me if I'm wrong but the spectrum RX sends back a downlink to the TX (DX7)to keep the signal solid. I don't really understand the technical side of DSM but if this is true then the RX in the plane maybe getting saturated with the RX down/uplink signals from the other RX. I should have kept them futher apart rather then having only a couple inches between them. So after I do some repairs I will do some more test to get it figured out and if I have to I will go back to using a 72mhz to work the Pan & Tilt with a Berg RX.

aviatordave
07-31-2007, 06:47 PM
I think your breaking new ground...I have not heard of trying two 2.4 Ghz rx's in one plane, guess I wont try that!

Did it range test ok on the ground? both systems?

Crash9
07-31-2007, 06:50 PM
On another note a bit off topic I have had some problems with my MiniMag that has a AR6100RX. It seems if someone with DX6 stands close to me (within 6') while I'm flying and they are between me and the plane I suddenly loose control until I move. It took a few crashes (good thing the plane bounces off the ground::o) and after replaying the events this is what we believe is happening. My radio signal is blocked for a second or more from the other radio signal when the 2 are close together. I no longer by into the "glitch Proof" thinking that Spectrum advertises. Even still the 2.4ghz stuff IMO is the best radio gear out there today if you want minimum glitches:)

Crash9
07-31-2007, 06:55 PM
I think your breaking new ground...I have not heard of trying two 2.4 Ghz rx's in one plane, guess I wont try that!

Did it range test ok on the ground? both systems?"Range Test", what's that? (hehe). No I didn't on the second flight, me bad. I bet I do it next time though:< and everytime for now on...http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

Crash9
08-06-2007, 02:44 AM
It worked!!! Today I got to do some more testing to resolve the glitch issue with the help of brnyrbbl and AirTrucker. We did 2 APVideo flights and 1 FPV flight.

To update, the first time I used a Optic 6 and Electron6 RX to operate the Pan & Tilt and we got glitches. Second time the Pan & Tilt was controlled with a DX6 and the TwinStar suffered glitching and finally I went back to the 72mhz using a Berg 4 channel RX and my old Laser 4 radio and it was Rock Solid with no glitching.
So the Optic 6 that I resently got repaired because a module over-heating problem (under warranty) caused the problem back in the beginning of the Pan & Tilt 2 radio test(so much for the repairhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif). My resent Optic 6 bench test shows that after the radio is on for more then 5 minites it starts glitching. If only I started with the cheapy Lazer 4 it would have saved some time and I could of moved on using this set-up. Lesson learnedhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif.

brnyrbbl
08-06-2007, 02:49 AM
Dave... Yes, a range test was performed this time;)